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When is the shit show going to end? Just crazy.
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Trump's tangled web is decades in the making, with a lot of powerful, rich and corrupt people involved.
Going to take a lot of time and people with steel in their backbone to flush Trump down the tube.
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Trump isn't going to get flushed... LOL
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for some reason i didn't get that from this article ??
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maybe the entire investigation is tossed, and mueller charged with collusion and forced to pay back the millions wasted. then rosenstein fired and charged along with comey and the rest of the crew
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"mueller charged with collusion and forced to pay back the millions wasted."
Then Tramp and all the cabinet secretaries should pay back all their wasted money too...just sayin...cause it's my tax money too. Like Pruitt's "Cone of Silence."
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birds don't pay tax, especially skittish ones
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IG report coming out in few days....shit is going to hit the fan for justice dept and FBI
NYtimes article out with some leaks to help soften the blow
Code Name Crossfire Hurricane: The Secret Origins of the Trump Investigation
this is getting so exciting...bad part is rumor comey got immunity (no wonder he is going off on the book tour without a worry)
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comey immunity?
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Trumpians control Congress. Trumpian friends have well hacked the election system. Trump and the Russians will run the Southerners for the foreseeable future. President FOR LIFE. Pardon Flynn and Maniford and Cohen. Lets get on with making the rich richer and bankrupting the country. Trillion dollar deficits are only bad if the Dems run them. For good measure arrest Hil. and Muller and a few MSN reporters. And start letting a few healthy babies in, there are some good trumpies that want to have kids and a few of them must have light skin if not pure Aryan. And if some reporters still cant keep their mouths shut "termination with extreme prejudice" for traitors is not out of line. And every single Justice department lawyer and FBI agent should be fired if they can't take a loyalty oath to their constitutional boss...President Donald J Trump.
anyone want to join me in a chorus of "O Canada". I can probably smuggle one or two home with me and you can apply for asylum !d
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yep the Russians didn't do anything not are they planning anything for 2018. all the money trump and his friends and family are making is coincidental. Campaign finance laws are bullshit anyway. A president cant be subpoenaed nor can he obstruct justice. Just leave that pious Christian man alone so he can save Chinese jobs !
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The Russians are involved. And we are involved in their elections etc. I imagine some of the Russian bots tried to help Hillary as well. They try to sow division and dissension. The bots I later read were rather childish and I can not see how they could really have won the election for Trump. I hate trumps policies but he was able to win over a lot of working and other people by railing about how globalism etc were taking American jobs etc People felt left out and the elites led by Hillary alienated them further. My two cents
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Of course, there are so many stupid Americans who would read something on the internet and actually decide to vote that way without doing any research.....
Damn, we have some really dumb voters...
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1. Do Trump supporters not believe that Trump was suppprted by Russians in election and Trump may be under Russian influence either thru blackmail or thru financial/business/loan ties to Russian oligarchs w ties to Kremlin?
2. Or, do you guys just not care?
It boggles my mind that many seemingly rational thinking Americans seem ok w believing in Trumps many alternative facts surrounding him and his corrupt hirees. I mean how do people reconcile Trump asserting that more people showed up for his inauguration when less people attended his inauguration than a LA Chargers football game or when his own press team used images from Obama massive Inauguration Day attendance to claim as his own.
Sure all politicians are beholden to lobbyists in some way but we re talking about being beholden (in perhaps a duress manner) to foreign powers.
3. How deep is the corruption and how easily for sale is Trumps US Foreign policy? Just ask Broidy (sp?) Trump’s former campaign fundraiser who had President’s ears and Nadar who had the ears of the Saudi Princes. A pledge of $1 billion in Saudi Business security contracts allowed these two to sway Trump into turning historical Middle East ally Qatar overnight into a pirrieah that needs an embargo against it.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-trump-saudi-uae-princes-20180521-story,amp.html
(There’s a more in depth NY Times article but the Chicago Tribune one is free to read w/o Subscription)
In another thread someone said that US changed its policy against Qatar because of its ties to Iran. Read The NY Times or Tribune article and see if you still believe that! It’s a good excuse but the fix against Qatar was already in.
Either Trump is a sucker who got duped by these two country-selling profiteers, or Trump supporting a policy that is popular with Saudi ascending Princes benefits himself so it was easy for him to go along w it.
The level of shameless profiteering of Trump and his cronies is so unabashed yet Trumpsters don’t seem to care/mind. That boggles my mind.
Not everyone agreed w Obama and his policies but no one ever accused him of making a decision to line his own pocket or to curry personal favors from foreign powers for personal benefit. If anyone knows of any, I’m all ears.
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1) why would we believe that? What evidence would we have to conclude that? Why do you presume that to be true? What has Russia gained since trumps election? How exactly did Russia “help” trump?
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do people fuck anymore?
like really fuck like they want it anymore?
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don't rile em up SC
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"1) why would we believe that? What evidence would we have to conclude that? Why do you presume that to be true? What has Russia gained since trumps election? How exactly did Russia “help” trump?"
Syd, I can answer all those questions in detail, but there's so much evidence it would be a fairly work-intensive response. If I were to put in that effort, would it truly make a difference? I mean, do you have an open mind on this subject?
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Yeah Dirt. I think we should get back to fucking.
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j502....if there is so much solid and proveable evidence why hasn’t Mueller indicted Trump by now? Almost two years and we have a few tax evasion and money laundering indictments from years before the campaign. And you are the naive one if you think any politician’s campaign wouldn’t meet with someone if they said they had dirt on their opponent. Doesn’t mean anyone sold out. The Russian bots spewed Anti-Trump stuff as well as Hillary stuff.
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And as thedon said we try to screw with other country’s election too.
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Keep searching.
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It’s incredulous at how hard Trumpsters try to put on blinders?
We re way beyond the Russian election meddling now...as evident by the multiple meetings between Russian and Trump senior officials, Russian hacking and use of fake accounts on social media.
What does Russia have to gain by supporting Trump? For one, Trump is definitely pro-Putin. Trump also dragged his feet for months on implementing new sanctions against Russia for election meddling after Congress had already voted for it. Russia wants to disrupt US and our historical allies/NATO.
How much of Trump pulling out of Iran nuclear deal was Trump v Russia knowing that doing so would sow mistrust w many US allies who urged Trump to stay in the deal?
Per the Steele dossier, Russian oligarchs and the UAE have partnered together on a large investment fund that once Trump is able to lift the US sanctions against Russia, the investors will make a butt load of money.
As I mentioned before, w Trump, it’s hard to know how much of what he does is for the good of US or for the good of his pockets before being lined by foreign money?
Mueller special investigation authorization include looking into any “links between Russian Govt and any individuals associated w the Trump campaign.”
Mueller investigating Manafort, Carter Page, Lewendolski (sp?), Trump Jr, Kushner, etc is all fair game.
Based on available public info out there for those who care to look, (and I’ll only speak of my own observations), there’s evidence of some high level corruption: trump associates working in the interest of foreign powers in trying to secure favorable US policies for Ukraine (to lift or at least not escalate more sanctions placed on Russia after Russian invaded it), UAE/Saudi Arabia (see link above on how former Trump campaign fundraiser Broidy and Saudi Prince connected Nadar pursuaded Trump to punish Qatar w embargo on a country that cooperatively allows US to have a strategic military base there in Middle East), and amount of secret/laundered foreign money that flows thru Trump associates (ie Manafort, Broidy, and Trump personal attorney Michael Cohen).
Why hasn’t mueller gone after Trump yet?
Maybe he knows that without crossing all his T’s and dotting all his I’s, zealous Trumpsters won’t believe what he’s found out, or maybe he knows he needs to follow the money all the way to the bottom of the pit to see who is at the source of the vipers’ den.
If he can gather irrefutable evidence that our presidential office and policies are for sale, then maaaayyybee borderline Trumpsters might acknowledge that corruption at the State level does not make America great.
Finally it’s interesting to note that the Steele Dossier was written by ex-British MI6 back in 2016. Back then he named and described the shadiness of Manafort, Carter Page, Lewendolski, and even Michael Cohen. We re in 2018, and the secret meetings w Russian agents and/or Russian oligarchs have finally been admitted to by current or ex-Trump officials.
I personally don’t give a Sh-t if Hillary or Trump won, but I do give a Sh-t about the potential selling out of our country.
I encourage people to read the Steele dossier. My thoughts come from a mixture of following the Mueller investigation, reading articles, and correlating w what I remember from the dossier.
* Final question to Trumpsters: Do you believe there is a high level of corruption w FOREIGN powers via Trump’s current and/or ex-Trump officials/administration that needs to be rooted out, or do you think we have nothing to worry about?
(Notice that I’m not talking about domestic corruption whereby a friend of a govt official gets awarded some inflated multi-million construction project to pave w highway without open bidding.)
Below is link to Steele dossier. There might be a better version out there than this link but for the lazy, here it is.
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Hey, jazz!
"j502....if there is so much solid and proveable evidence why hasn’t Mueller indicted Trump by now? Almost two years and we have a few tax evasion and money laundering indictments from years before the campaign. And you are the naive one if you think any politician’s campaign wouldn’t meet with someone if they said they had dirt on their opponent. Doesn’t mean anyone sold out. The Russian bots spewed Anti-Trump stuff as well as Hillary stuff."
In answer to your question, there's no point in rushing to any indictment. In a case like this where there is one person at the top of an organization, you would prefer to work from the outside in or bottom up. The person at the top of the org would be the last person to be indicted if evidence warranted. Plus, there discussion about whether or not it's possible to legally indict a sitting Prez.
The Mueller investigation hasn't been going on for two years. It started May 17th of last year, so officially 1 year and 11 days.
You're right, I would be naive if I thought a politician would refuse dirt on their opponent, but it is illegal for a campaign to accept dirt, donations, or help of any kind from other nations. According to Don Jr.'s own email, the Trump Tower meeting of June 2016 was set up to accept the help being offered by the "Russian Government". While the Trump campaign denies receiving the promised "dirt", they do admit to discussing the sanctions against Russia set forth within the Magnitsky Act. The same apparently holds true for Don Jr.'s August meeting with George Nader who was representing the Saudi and UAE Princes and relayed that they were eager to help his father win the election.
All in all, there were over 75 contacts between the Trump campaign and Russians that were currently know of. Each and every one of those meetings was denied or lied about and then later admitted to.
In the case of the Russian social media influence campaign, no ads or postings were found that helped Hillary Clinton. You've been given some misleading information on that one. What was found were ads and postings on FB, Twitter, etc. that supported Trump, lied about Clinton, tried to turn Bernie supports against Hillary and fomented tensions and divisions within the country. For example, there were some that supported BLM, supported gun rights, etc.
What's really interesting about the online stuff is how well targeted they were. They were able to get these ads, bot postings, etc. in front of voters in key districts where they knew they would have the most impact and best chance of either depressing the vote for Hillary or switching votes to Trump. The Russian run Internet Research Agency would've had to have had help from inside the United States in order to target with such accuracy. This is where Steve Bannon's company Cambridge Analytica comes into the story. Owned by uber-conservative billionaire Robert Mercer and his daughter (who donated millions of dollars to the Trump campaign), Cambridge Analytica is now in hot water for illegally obtaining years of internal Facebook data from a Russian researcher and professor.
There's so much to this story. So much information that already been learned. All of this is widely known, reported by reputable sources that have a lot to lose if there wrong, been delivered in testimony to Congress and admitted to by the Trump campaign. But what is even scarier is the stuff that Mueller knows that we have no idea about.
I hope that helps, my brother.
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“If he can gather irrefutable evidence that our presidential office and policies are for sale, then maaaayyybee borderline Trumpsters might acknowledge that corruption at the State level does not make America great.”
I completely agree with you that Mueller would need irrefutable evidence, which is exactly what I currently do not see - evidence.
Russia (and other countries) always try to sway public opinion through their own news media and other platforms. We also try to sway other countries elections, however, information sharing is not nefarious.
For me Trump would have had to pay Russia, or promise something in return for me to consider him and involved participant.
Oh say like, giving away 20% of our uranium would be something I consider “a payoff”.
For me, that was a very large “reset button” that Hillary hit, only to end in sanctions later.
If a better republican or even a good moderate Democrat were to run, I’d consider voting for them.
But democrats seems to be doubling down on socialism, which produces a nothing; it only redistributes wealth.
I’d prefer to see a better economy which enables all to be independent producers of their own wealth.
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Just want Pro-Trumpsters to answer this one:
* Final question to Trumpsters: Do you believe there is a high level of corruption w FOREIGN powers via Trump’s current and/or ex-Trump officials/administration that needs to be rooted out?
Or, do you think we have nothing to worry about?
(Again, I stress foreign corruption and not domestic corruption whereby a govt official awards a non-open bid inflated contract to his friend or family member’s company that they just formed to rebuild powerllines in Puerto Rico..)
As for Uranium One, Attorney General Jeff Sessions was asked in a Congressional Hearing whether he was aware of it and Jeff Sessions replied that “I can not confirm or deny an investigation” but I will review it and take necessary steps. I’m ok w Attorney General looking into Uranium One or even the Clinton Foundation. I’m actually surprised he hasn’t gone there yet because it seems to be within his jurisdiction.
As for socialist v capitalist views, that’s a completely different convo as to whether Trump and company have or are selling our National Interest/Policies to foreign powers for personal gains.
We all recently did our taxes. Trump tax cut is an illusion for the average wage/salary earner. The tax savings was minuscule. For people who can structure their income moreso as corporate revenue rather than personal income, they benefited more. For big companies like Apple who got to repatriate billions of dollars from overseas profit and Trump was touting it would lead to more job creation, Apple ended up using that money to pay dividends to stock holders and to buy back company stocks in order to boost its stock value.
Trump’s biggest impact imho to the economy is all of his rolling back of govt regulations: from banking to environmental. For instance, by relaxing govt regulations in air and water quality, Trump may have saved those Coal miners’ jobs for a little while longer. By rolling back the bank regulations that were installed after the housing bubble pop, Trump may have made capital more liquid again.
However, at what costs? Will people in Flint Michigan ever get clean drinking water? How bad will the coal mines contribute to the air pollution? Will looser requirements on banks lead to another financial crisis? Already I’m seeing more and more stated-income loans becoming available.
You see evidence left and right of how he, his family members, and his cronies are making millions and billions of dollars. (Ex. His friend Karl Icon dumping his US Steel stocks days before Trump announced major tariffs on steel imports, his daughter Ivanka finally getting trademark approval in China just days before Trump announced he’d lift sanctions against a major Chinese cell phone maker company, and interestingly a few months after desperate Jared Kushner got rejected by Qatar to invest $1 billion dollars to invest/bail out his 666 Park Ave Manhattan highrise, Trump administration supported an economic blockade against Qatar.)
Anyhow, my biggest worry is the level of corruption I see at the Executive branch level being bought w Foreign money. Yet, while Trump and his billionaire friends are fattening themselves up, what has Trump done to significantly improve your life?
Secondarily, I worry about the amount of Corporate influence via its big campaign donations that looks almost like domestic corruption/bribes. It’s ironic that the trend of US Supreme Court rulings seems to give Corporations (just a man made legal entity) more rights than individual donors/voters (real people) w amount of money that SuperPacs can raise and contribute. Thru the SuperPacs, the top 1% (like the Koch brothers) can really run the country, but at least they’re playing by our own domestic rules and not a foreign power.
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Actually if you believe the FBI and Comey, they started investigation of the Russian collusion all the way back to July 2016....so that is awfully close to two years....Mueller got into the picture a little over a year ago....
So with a year of FBI investigation and another year of Mueller...we are nearly at 2 years....and again, the indictments are old tax evasion and Flynn lying under oath.....if there was anything of real substance, with how leaky our government is, someone would have spilled the beans by now....
The Russian ads were anti America....trying to disrupt our country, anti Trump, anti Hillary and ads even after Trump was elected that were trying to be disruptive.....not all of them were anti Hillary, so maybe you are misinformed.....
75 contacts with Russians.....which Russians....I know two Russians and have contact with them..doesn't mean they are Russian spies or Governmental officials. Don't forget the Obama campaign contacts with the Iranians....of course that never got investigated.....because everyone loved him and everyone hates Trump.
Apply the same standards to Obama and previous presidents and you might find some amazing contacts....
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2small4porn.....
I will pose a similar question to you....
With all the Clinton Foundation money and foreign government contributions would you be making the same allegations about Hillary if she got elected?
I doubt it.
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Jazz, I support Attorney Sessions investigating Uranium One and/or Clinton Foundation.
I take it by your response/logic that if one party is allowed to be corrupt, then it’s only fair to give the other party equal time/opportunity to be corrupt.
Btw, (you’re deflecting) I’d be interested to know your answers to my questions:
Do you think there’s major State level corruption going on within Trump administration (both current and ex-officials) w other FOREIGN powers?
Do you think we have nothing to worry about?
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Jazz deflecting? Say it ain't so!
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Also, maybe Bill Clinton getting impeached for essentially lying about getting a blowjob in office was the most efficacious and somewhat least controversial way of punishing the Clintons. After all, an impeachment is an impeachment whether it’d be for a blowjob or for Clinton Foundation.
My theory is that Mueller will have a buttload of charges to possibly allow Congress to impeach Trump on ranging from Obstruction of Justice to higher crimes of corruption and money laundering.
However, to save the dignity of the Office of the President, Congress will most likely only bring Trump up for the most vanilla of charges, which is Obstruction...that or he’d be allowed to resign.
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Until such corruption is proven, I am far more worried about what the FBI, IRS and CIA are digging into.
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Trump 2016 (and Supporters): The FBI is Investigating Hillary Clinton, so she must be corrupt.
Trump 2018 (and Supporters): The FBI is Investigating me, so they must be Corrupt.
Yeah Trumpanzee logic at it's best.
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Trumps greatest accomplishment has been to reveal Dumbocrats as over the top crazy and delusional.
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An entire party resisting and not caring about any positive accomplishments. Sad.
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@jazz51
You wrote: "Don't forget the Obama campaign contacts with the Iranians....of course that never got investigated.....because everyone loved him and everyone hates Trump.
Apply the same standards to Obama and previous presidents and you might find some amazing contacts.... "
You then linked to an article from politifact as evidence to support what you wrote. BUT YOU FAILED TO READ THE ARTICLE before you linked it. Dude, jazz, they rated the claim you're making as false.
Here's what it says:
"We were intrigued by the claim that Obama sought secret communication channels with Iran before he even won the 2008 election. When we started to dig into it, we were surprised to find that the evidence supporting that narrative is slim and ultimately insufficient.
As far as we can tell, this allegation stems solely from the commentary of Michael Ledeen, a conservative Iran and Iraq expert at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies and a critic of Obama’s foreign policy.
Ledeen was also a national security consultant to President Ronald Reagan’s administration. He recently co-authored a book with Trump’s ousted National Security Adviser Michael Flynn."
I'm not trying to rub it in or celebrate a mistake you made. I'm seriously trying to look out for you. There's a TON of misinformation out there. We need to be careful and only trust credible sources. There are interests that benefit from us being divided against each other and they put out massive amounts of misinformation to keep us focused on each other instead of the more serious issues affecting our country.
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@jazz51
I'll break these down and respond point by point.
"Actually if you believe the FBI and Comey, they started investigation of the Russian collusion all the way back to July 2016....so that is awfully close to two years....Mueller got into the picture a little over a year ago...."
Yes, if you're including the very beginning of the FBI investigation, it would be about a year and 10 months. The Clinton/Whitewater Investigation lasted over 4 years, so we may have a ways to go...
"So with a year of FBI investigation and another year of Mueller...we are nearly at 2 years....and again, the indictments are old tax evasion and Flynn lying under oath..."
Manafort's not just charged with tax evasion. His federal indictments are for conspiracy to defraud the United States, conspiracy to launder money, acting as an unregistered agent of a foreign principal, and making false and misleading statements to the FBI.
Flynn isn't indicted, he plead guilty to lying to the FBI. It wasn't just any old lie either. It was specifically about a conversation he had with then Russian Ambassador to the US, Sergei Kislyak. He lied when he said he had not discussed the recent sanctions the Obama administration had placed on Russia.
All in all, in just over a year, the Mueller investigation has produced 5 convictions and 17 indictments (14 people and 3 companies). And they appear to be far from done.
"...if there was anything of real substance, with how leaky our government is, someone would have spilled the beans by now..."
You're right, certain parts of our government do indeed leak to the press quite often, but Mueller and his group have been notoriously tight lipped. If they leak stuff, it can set back the investigation in a number of different ways. So, there's no reason why the beans would've been spilled by now.
"The Russian ads were anti America....trying to disrupt our country, anti Trump, anti Hillary and ads even after Trump was elected that were trying to be disruptive.....not all of them were anti Hillary, so maybe you are misinformed..."
If you re-read what I wrote, we are basically saying the same thing here. I never said all of them were anti Hillary as you claim. I divided them into 3 groups, pro-Trump, anti-Hillary and those meant to foment pre-existing divisions in our country on issues like Black Lives Matters and gun control. A lot them were aimed at evangelicals as well. However, according to all of the many articles I've read, the only anti-Trump ads linked to fake Russian accounts were after his election to sow even more division in our country.
"75 contacts with Russians.....which Russians....I know two Russians and have contact with them..doesn't mean they are Russian spies or Governmental officials."
If you'd like a list of the Russians the Trump campaign met with, I'd be happy to supply that for you. Many of them have strong or direct ties to Vladimir Putin or the Russian government. Not all, of course, the Putin's not that dumb.
That said, it's highly unusual for any Presidential campaigns to be meeting IN SECRET with ANY foreign nationals, especially ones connected to and/or representing foreign governments. This hasn't happened in our country before. There are over 75 contacts that we know of and each and every one of them was at first denied, covered up, omitted or lied about in some way.
No one is saying it's bad to have contacts with Russians or other foreigners. Just that it's bad to do that in secret during a Presidential campaign all while soliciting/accepting offers of help from them to get your candidate elected. That's illegal.
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Lol, do you really think any of those words you typed will change in any way what Jazz believes? At best you'll get him to waste 20 minutes or more of his time typing up a reply pointing out how some democrat did something wrong and some republican did something right.
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Ha ha ha. Damn you all are so dense. You will fight this shit for two more years and nothing will have come of it. Can’t you see our entire government is corrupt and fucked up. They tax you more and you see less and less, unless you are a lazy slacker then you get free shit. Trump is no better or worse than the rest, but it is the civil service entrenched government elite who run this place. They don’t want Trump trying to mess up their perfect world and will leak and do whatever it takes to bring him down. Bush and Obama were not threatening them so they let all their indiscretions slide. And there were many during both administrations. Let the run away government keep spending your taxes like crazy. It won’t happen in my lifetime but some of you younger dudes will be paying more than half of what you make to the Feds. And then California will take the other half. But go ahead and believe your narrative if it makes you feel better.
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Of course, the Manfort stuff dates back BEFORE the election...years ago in his business dealings. Flynn pleaded guilty, yes, but it was for lying....have you ever been deposed? I bet after I asked each of you questions for 15-20 hours, you might tell a story differently, since my questions will be leading, slightly different and with a different context. Lawyers are great at it. If the FBI had a team of 50 people digging into YOU, I bet they will find something.....you didn't really have that business deduction.....that dinner was NOT with a client, you didn't declare that extra money....and on and on and on......
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Trump did not meet with Russians....and you might not have read my link to the Obama back channel communication with the Iranians......anyone who claims this has never happened before in our country....you need to alter that...it hasn't been discovered and blown up in the media before.....you are naive as hell to believe it doesn't happen.....but just keep believing what MSNBC and CNN tell you...do your own research.
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Do you think there’s major State level corruption going on within Trump administration (both current and ex-officials) w other FOREIGN powers?
There are corrupt government leaders that have been in Washington for decades, from one Presidency to the next.....you really are comfortable knowing people like McCabe, Comey, Lisa Page and Peter Strzok could do anything to you if they don't like you?
I fear our own government power way more than foreign influence.
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Wall Street Journal foreign affairs reporter Jay Solomon, author of The Iran Wars, said he "could never prove" that Obama sought a back channel to Iran as a presidential candidate, but he can’t definitively say it didn’t happen.
You all are jumping on Trump with no proof against HIM......the backchannel Iranian thing is also something there is no proof but sure a lot of smoke about.....but Obama didn't have dozens of snitches in the government....if he did, there would be proof....
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