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The situation sets up a dangerous precedent, but its the consequencescaussed by Trump intervening in matters that did not need his attention.
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Trump is the Commander in Chief.. 
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taking a picture with a dead terrorist is hardly a war criminal
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It’s so funny how when all else fails... bring out the Nazi argument.
Haaaaaa .... Trump has got to be loving this!
This entire argument is Stooooooopid.
(While clutching pearls) I’m aghast! The President used his legal power and authority to override an administrative decision! The horror of it all!
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On another note
To compare in any way, US Navy Seals and German Nazi's is rediculas
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And ridiculous!
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Listening to the "commander in chief" blindly without question is UN-American. As a solider one has the moral duty to disobey the order based on their morals. If more Germans stood up against Hitler there would be no Nazi Germany. Just because we have a commander in chief doesn't make him right , we vote for president and not Kings. I find it humorous that those on the right bitch and complain what president Obama did and yet with 45 they keep their mouth shut. Be consistent in your criticism of our leaders and call out the Bullshit when we see it regardless of party affiliation.
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Phyre,
ya know, it's not black and white as you make it out to be.
A matter of degree really.
Isn't military justice something quite different than a court of law.
And he was 100% guilty of the 1 charge.
AND
it's not like they were going to hang the dude.
Just demote him.
If you were a soldier and didn't like what Gallagher was doing - like all those guys on his team that reported his conduct- than you can imagine that his behavior puts you all at risk.
They, after all, are the ones who have to work with him.
They are the ones who are exposed by his conduct.
Let me ask you this.
If you were invited to play a round of golf with OJ - would you do it?
Would Trump?
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“As a solider one has the moral duty to disobey the order based on their morals.”
Where did you hear/read that?
Oh yeah... LOL with equating “feelings” with morals.
What could be considered “immoral” about the President’s pardon?
You are required to obey lawful orders... not just the ones you like and agree with.
I’m guessing most who can’t grasp this concept haven’t served.
LOL at escalating an order to restore an NCO rank AFTER he was acquitted, to the level of ordering the the Murder of 6 million Jews.
Oh yeah.... the slippery slope argument. If he disagrees with the president about restoring an NCO rank and still follows the order.... next he will follow an order to kill millions of people without question!
BTW.... the Rear Admiral has the right to question the order... he doesn’t have the right to undermine it because of his personal feelings about the matter.
Imagine what would happen if that is how it really worked.
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phyremedic my understanding was he was demoted and 45 didn't like the outcome so he stepped in and changed it. I'm going to go out on the limb and say 45 didn't read up on this case nor attended the court martial. (Just a guess. )
If 45 is going to undermine his general's decisions then why even have generals running the military. we just need to outfit 45 with a military uniforms because he so admired dictators throughout the world. I'm not comparing him to the Nazi because comparing anything to Nazi and Hitler is downgrading what they did. I hope there will never be comparison.
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I know killing civilian is wrong I know killing non combatant is wrong if my superior ordered me to do so I must and will object. It has nothing to do with serving. I'll take my medicine at a court martial all day and twice on Sunday . so please dont hide behind this " I was ordered to do it" many soldiers did so during WWII and they are put on trial for "just following orders"
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I still want to know who wants to play golf with OJ
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What @phyremedic said except it's corpse not corps. And while I prefer our guys not piss on their bodies or pose with their corpses, fuck ISIS. Considering the shit they do they do not deserve to be treated with the courtesy and respect normally afforded to enemy combatants. They are worse than animals. They literally pose with the heads of the men and women that have viciously butchered without mercy. No American service person should lose their career or pension or liberty over these horrible cunts. Not a huge Trump fan but at least he saw the common sense of this situation and stood up for the guys who put their asses on the line for us.
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The navy got caught trying to screw him over. Just like the Marine General Amos.
The POTUS is the comander and chief he can do what ever he wants.
I have been in the Marines for 19 years. I been to war i seen what it does to our Troops. And I have seen brass and politicians screw over our troops.
This is the first time I have seen someone.step up and right a wrong .
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You’re missing something.
He was found “not guilty” because Trump weighed in and influenced the jurors/naval officers who were to judge Gallagher’s conduct. Had Trump NOT stepped in Gallagher would be serving prison time and his rank downgraded and elite status revoked.
His own team turned him in, rather than protect “the brotherhood”. The guys you trust with your safety and your life and trust you to care for them testified against him.
That’s how bad the crimes were.
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Ya so anything Trump supporters do is right! So don’t forget that peoples!!!!!
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The jury of his peers found him not guilty...
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No. He was found not guilty because the member of his team that was granted immunity testified that he had in fact killed the guy Gallagher was accused of killing. If I remember correctly he was a medic and admitted to killing the guy while treating him.
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Thanks Google!
Rule 916d of the Manual for Court Martial states:
(d) Obedience to orders. It is a defense to any offense that the accused was acting pursuant to orders unless the accused knew the orders to be unlawful or a person of ordinary sense and understanding would have known the orders to be unlawful.
The UCJ also includes a discussion of that Rule.
Discussion
Ordinarily the lawfulness of an order is decided by the military judge. See R.C.M. 801(e). An exception might exist when the sole issue is whether the person who gave the order in fact occupied a certain position at the time.
An act performed pursuant to a lawful order is justified. See R.C.M. 916(c). An act performed pursuant to an unlawful order is excused unless the accused knew it to be unlawful or a person of ordinary sense and understanding would have known it to be unlawful.<\i>
Figured if y’all wanted to argue about whether or not a soldier must follow an order from above, you should at least read what the law states.
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And in case you want to read it for yourself, page II-129 aka page 178 of 772.
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And since Trump is commander in chief he is the mostest above!
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“He was found “not guilty” because Trump weighed in and influenced the jurors/naval officers who were to judge Gallagher’s conduct.”
Really? And you know this because...
Sherkahn, it’s clear to see you are bitter.... but quit making shit up. Only the jury knows why they voted the way they did... and none of them have copped to your story.
Why can’t you believe they thought he was not guilty?
I would think the jury knows much more about the evidence than you... but you think they are weak minded wussies who can’t make up their own mind.
Which branch did you serve in?
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Fucking civilians.... especially draft dodgers need to stay the fuck out of military business.
Especially civilian lawyers.
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In the military especially colonel and up became beaurocrats. We enlistmen hate those fuckers. Taking pictures with the corpse, sure it was unprofessional. Its not career ending. This shit reeks of politic ing.
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draft dodger
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It seems that military tribunals rulings should be respected. They found him guilty of a lesser charge and ordered certain punishment which was not unduly harsh. Seems like whoever is Commander in Chief should respect the decisions of military courts unless the result is a travesty.
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^ just like manning? Get outta here
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Sherkahn is as bright as a 15 watt light bulb. Lib POS moron
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I was thinking most of us have no idea qhat our soldiers are going through. I am not saying it was ok but whatever, it if helped him deal with all the shot they go have to then so be it. Its not cool and it was immature but hardly the big deal it became (I am talking about the pic taking). And when you are at War with people that dont play by any rules then I dont think a little disrespect thrown there way is anything bad. They behead people and film it. As far as Trump, he just likes to be consistent. Butting his fat head in whereever he pleases. But as much as I dont like to say it, Trump didnt let them take away his "sealhood" , lol. And really, what he did shouldnt take away everything he has done.
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“It seems that military tribunals rulings should be respected’
The military has its own standard of justice... that... just like the federal court system... the president can overrule.
So which “tribunal should be respected?
The one where he was acquitted... or the administrative one because they didn’t like the outcome of the trial?
Civilian intervention... military intervention... no matter which one, people think the president (any president) over steps and is wrong.
What I like about it is he didn’t do the normal pussy presidential move and wait until his last day in office to do it. He believed it was the right thing to do... and did it... knowing he would have to take his lumps over it. I respect that.
And... from what I have heard and read... the majority of enlisted men respect it too. They see that their civilian oversight is not asleep at the wheel and won’t allow the top tier brass run rough shod over the bottom tiers.
I’m a vet and have lots of vet friends (most of them don’t like Trump), but they like that he stepped up for an enlisted guy.
Anyone that has served has seen ‘middle management” get screwed over... and politicized by....
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FWIW I was listening to an interview on KNX 1070. The individual being interview was a former Army Ranger as well as a former member of the Judge Advocate General's Corps. He is currently a law professor at a University.
A summary of what he said was that the biggest danger to the military justice system from President's being involved with the system is making the public think that the military justice system is not fair and he believes the military justice system is fair. He did not believe the intervention in the Gallagher situation was a big deal and other presidents had intervened in a similar manner in other cases. He was more critical of Trump in relation to another situation where he did not allow the case to even go through the military justice system before getting involved.
I imagine you can find a recording of the interview on KNX's website.
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I agree with everything said above except the thought that the military justice system is “fair.”
1. In general... “justice” is rarely “Fair.” It’s all a matter of perspective.
2. Any bureaucracy tends to serve itself rather than the people it is intended to serve.
3. I have been witness to 3 Captain’s masts and one Court-martial. Not a single one was about “justice.” All were conducted in a way to insure the outcome was in the Navy’s best interest.
The NFL is a great example. When players and or coaches misbehave... the league office investigates and implements a remedy.
Publicity greatly impacts the direction of the proceeding because justice is not their ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is to protect the shield.
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No I did not read all of the comments.
But the fact that Trump wants the soldier he pardon on his campaign trail is a conflict of interest. That soldier is being used, and by someone that does not respect the military. That is just so wrong. Such a typical Trump move.
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^^^^^ lmao that's a lot of oxymoron there. Do you know where trump is at today?
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LOL @ conflict of interest.
Go you understand that phrase? You’re goofy.
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I’ll bet he wants Joe Arpio at his campaign events too.
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firing the navy secretary was apparently the right move...he is foaming out of his mouth in disdain for trump, there is no way he would have kept his word on a reach around deal...would have just blamed it on the naval peers making the decision
trump is finding and unmasking these people...one by one
who the fuck is next? they need to go
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The swamp is deep.
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| There are 38 comments on this blog. This blog is locked and no further comments are permitted. |
