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Neither R nor D will get behind that despite the whole “my body my choice” thing.
Libertarians want all your freedoms all the time.
And if that means you want to off yourself for any reason including just because, there should be a humane way to do it. No pain. No mess for hotel staff to find. Or your family. Or law enforcement to investigate. You walk into an end of life center and you come out the other side in an urn for your loved ones.
I also think that should be an option for prisoners, particularly for those with long sentences.
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I'm not saying I'm against the idea, but I wonder how many people were at a point they would have done it, only to be grateful they didn't.
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I think Youth in Asia should be illegal.
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Abortion is cool. Only liberals believe in it so hopefully there won’t be so many liberals in the future.
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Keep abortion legal and keep strangers, religious fanatics, judges and other government officials out of decisions that will impact your life and not theirs. This should only be a decision between the individuals involved. We can't be preaching freedom to other countries while trying to take away our own citizen's freedom of choice.
#Fuck Republicans
#Pro Choice
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And yes, euthanasia should also be legal in a country where individual freedoms are supposedly allowed.
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It’s interesting to watch people on both sides try to find consistency in their arguments concerning abortion, euthanasia and the death penalty.
Few Dems or Repubs struggle with the hypocrisy of their positions. Libertarians seem to have the only consistent position on life.
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The end of life topic is still taboo for a lot of people. You should have a medical directive drawn up while your still of sound mind. Too many fail to do this then end up in a piss smelling nursing home with their brain and body rotting away. How much medical resources are worth spending to give someone in that condition another week or month.
We put down pets for being in pain and agony and for less. Its a deeply personal choice, (as is abortion).
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“while your still of sound mind”
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@kml
You could you just put a 10 day waiting period on it like we do with gun purchases in Ca.
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@horndog
I agree with you here
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@jc1
You are that guy! lol
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@zeros
There is that need to hang on to dear life it seems no matter what the quality of life is.
I never forget visiting my Grandfather in this grave position & my Dad telling me to *take him out back with a shotgun* if he ever got to that point.
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@Draco
Yes, nature is brutal & will take its course regardless. Life =suffering.
Its interesting that covid has sparked this need to save every single life possible, so are we going to lock down for flu season going forward? Its a coronavirus too, not novel but if your diabetic obese (the real epidemic) it probably dont matter. Might be a good idea to ban high fructose corn syrup...cant do that it might hurt the farmers bottom line.
We are all free to binge on soda, junk food Etc & glutton yourself to death & free
end a life before it starts no questions asked, but u cant choose to go out on your terms peacefully?
Hmmm
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@KML While you are correct that *one* of the current legal issues with euthanasia is the uncertainty around consent, the historical bans on suicide have much different origins.
I believe the original restrictions were imposed by religions and later codified into secular laws. I've heard a theory that the Catholic church first came up with the ban because they wanted to raise more soldiers (peasants) for the crusades. An equally sinister theory is that churches benefited from the tithing of people who lived in misery so it was against the financial interests of the church for parishioners to kill themselves.
While the possibility of coerced suicide is possible in modern society, there's really no good reason to believe that it would be a large-scale problem. I suspect that the modern opponents of legal assisted-suicide would be the banks, since they would not be able to collect on debts of the deceased. Obviously, financial difficulties would be a major motivator for many.
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Also, a lot of the gray areas can be effectively dealt with. Here's one place that has been doing this for more than 2 decades.
I certainly hope that I have the ability and the resources to get my ass to Switzerland if and when I think I'm ready for their services.
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@Granite
I can understand why many people are ethically opposed to abortion in any circumstance. I may disagree, but it is a respectable opinion.
What I don't understand is why so many of those same people are equally opposed to effective sex education and easily-available contraception.
Especially when some of those anti-abortion, anti-contraception types are frequenting the lifestyles on this site.
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@Zeros
I doubt that end-of-life directives would prevent most people from ending up in nursing homes. Most of the people in that situation have chronic, but not terminal, health issues. Many people start off in retirement or assisted-living facilities when they are still relatively healthy, and after 5 or 10 or 20 years they're no longer able to take care of themselves at all.
I suspect that many many people in nursing homes would opt for assisted suicide if it were legally available to them. I'm pretty sure that I would.
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Just a few differences between abortion and capital punishment:
1. in 2017, there were over 860,00 abortions performed in the U.S. There were 23 executions in the same year.
1. I wonder how many illegal abortions were not counted and how many women died from them. I wonder how many people have been sentenced to death, by juries of so called pro lifers.
2. I and many others, including many women, believe that abortion is the taking of an innocent human life. Capital punishment is , well, a punishment.
2. Then you can choose not to have an abortion for your personal situation. You don't get to make that decision for strangers who will actually be affected by that choice. And if your so concerned with it, donate to foster charities.
3. I remember when abortion supporters used to claim that abortion should be "safe, legal, and RARE". It was not a decision, we were told, that is taken lightly. Yet today abortion is being increasing trivialized. People are celebrating their abortion, calling it the disposal of a piece of tissue, something that should be available on demand and without excuse (in other words, the reason, however whimsical, is irrelevant), and even available right up until the time of birth (and even beyond that). Capital punishment is meted out by society and its representatives as justice in response to certain crimes which are deemed to be so heinous and antithetical to society's values and morals that no other punishment is sufficient.
3. Nobody needs to justify their reason for an abortion to you or anybody else. Stop trying to force your beliefs onto others. Who the fuck do you think you are.
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The rebuttal was intended for dumb fuck Granite. ↑
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Death With Dignity
States laws.
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If your mom can abort you, why can't you abort yourself?
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My view on euthanasia has always been, if I lose the ability to wipe my own ass, then I'm done and ready to check out.
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@Granite
So hypothetically speaking, let's say I impregnate my lady friend and we both decide we don't want/can't have this child and everything that comes with, you, as a stranger, and not involved in any way, think you have the right to force us to have that child? The choice you want to take away from others impacts them financially and emotionally and not you. What an entitled piece of shit you must think you are.
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"We can't be preaching freedom to other countries while trying to take away our own citizen's freedom of choice."
"Nobody needs to justify their reason for an abortion to you or anybody else. Stop trying to force your beliefs onto others. Who the fuck do you think you are."
Same idiot who posted these comments would have us all paying more taxes to a government that would force any number of progressive policies down our throat. In fact that's all progressives do is come up with more stupid regulations, taxes, etc etc.
There were thousands of new proposed laws in Sacramento. 239 new taxes proposed by various entities. Why do women get a choice but I gotta watch the state burn down because you forced us all to live by your completely insane renewables policy for power generation?
Where is my choice?
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"The choice you want to take away from others impacts them financially and emotionally and not you. What an entitled piece of shit you must think you are."
Hey asshole, that's you doing the same thing to everybody else when you force us to live with one of your bullshit progressive policies.
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My point is... either it’s justifiable to take a life or it isn’t. The reasons are subjective. You can’t have it both ways. Either all life is precious or it isn’t.
It’s a hard and painful issue.
I would come down on the side of protecting life.
When it comes to abortion, it is FACTUALLY and SCIENTIFICALLY a life. This isn’t a matter of opinion.
The reality is that .5% of abortions are because of rape and 1% of abortions are due to health issues to protect the mother.
So literally 98+% of abortions are because of convenience.
Easily found statistics by Guttmacher Institute (privately funded) and CDC (publicly funded)
BTW... there is a 2+ year waiting list (even longer in some states) for these types of adoptions.
Lastly, I understand “it’s the woman’s body.” But it isn’t JUST the woman’s body. There is a life that, before she even knows it’s there, has it’s own unique DNA and Blood type. And often before she usually knows it’s there has functioning brain that feels pleasure and pain.
I am not one that believes in trying to legislate morality. But I do believe that innocent, defenseless life should be protected.
It’s a very difficult issue, and I understand the counter arguments, and I am sympathetic to some of them... but again, either life is precious or it isn’t.
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@phlamson
Interesting hypothesis about the banks, makes sense.
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Abortion should be between the person and their doctor.. Yes!
What should not happen...
Tax dollars should not pay for them!
Late Term abortion is bull shit unless the health of the mother is in danger!
Otherwise thats a decision that can be made much earlier!!!!!
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Recently found out about Man in the House Rule which SCOTUS ended in the late Sixties, pretty wild stuff
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One of the biggest issues in America is the huge number of single family homes. I don't know if the 70% stated number is accurate of single black female households but this a HUGE part of our problems!
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@Granite
"I can’t “force” you to do anything."
That's exactly what the pro life movement wants to do. They want to force their beliefs onto others, they can't just act on their values amongst themselves. These pro life strangers want doctors to not perform abortions, make it as difficult as possible for people to not have abortions and make abortion illegal.
"the motivation behind abortion is irrelevant"
Again, it's nobody's goddamn business as to why someone wants to have an abortion. Republicans are so tone deaf. Why should a prick like you decide a life long consequence for someone you don't even know? Stay in your lane asshole.
And stop pretending that you care about human life. That phony argument is bullshit. These pro lifers are nowhere to be seen once these children are born.
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TOS much EMO Corndog?
Did you really call him a “prick?”
He gets to you that much?
“Grrrrrrrrrrrr I’m ANGRY 😤 I’m going to call him a mean name! That’ll fix him!”
Next it will be, “Put em up... put em uuuuuup” (I’m using my Wizard of Oz Cowardly Lion voice. I know you can hear it in your head)
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Phlampson 👍
I say this all the time why are the pro lifers so against birth control ? Religious reasons don't cut it any more.
And I don't refer to them as pro life. They are pro birth because these same people that want to force people to have the baby sure don't want their taxes going to welfare programs because said person can't afford to raise the kid.
So birth control seems to be the answer but still this debate is going strong.
And I don't agree with late term abortions. A person usually knows if they want to keep it or not. It shouldnt take them 6 months or more to do it.
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“ I say this all the time why are the pro lifers so against birth control ?”
Asked correctly... “Why are SOME pro lifers so against birth control?
The majority of “pro-lifers” have no problem with most means of preventing pregnancy. They disagree with ending a pregnancy for the sake of convenience.
You hear the extreme minority opinion on birth control because that is “News.” People don’t tune in or read articles about agreement. Often a small (sometimes loud) group with an extreme perspective is given the mantle of an entire ideology. The media loves to promote that. Most people don’t care enough to do the work of searching out who is who and what is what. They are just happy to read a headline, hear a two minute news report... and feel informed.
When in actuality... watching the news and reading a 150 word article just made them a little dumber.
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There are others... but it’s a relatively small percentage.
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Here's a choice:
Adoption
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"And yes, I do care about human life. Do you really think that obligates me to pay for the care of your family members because you would rather dispose of them?"
Those fictional family members would not exist as long as abortion remains legal and you wouldn't be obligated to pay for anything as long as abortions remain legal. Pro life means paying more taxes for schools, healthcare costs, government benefits, cost of litigating abortion-related lawsuits, etc.
"And first you argued that the reason behind abortion is irrelevant. Now you are saying that if I would just help relieve people of the burden of caring for unwanted family members, they wouldn't have to have abortions. That's not only contradictory, that's incredibly stupid, even for you. By that logic, we should just give everyone in the world everything that they want, however unreasonable, so that there would be no more crime. Life doesn't work that way, dude. Murder is wrong. Sorry if that seems like that's forcing my beliefs on you."
It is irrelevant to anyone not involved.How many abortions have impacted your life?
You really don't get it. Nobody is asking pro lifers for anything, they're the ones who are meddling into others personal decisions. There is no burden to relieve people of caring for fictional unwanted family members as long as abortion is legal.
You better hope you don't get the wrong person pregnant if abortion is illegal.
And I support late term abortions. Is it too late for you?
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Here's a choice:
Adoption
That's a great choice but there aren't enough children being adopted. Pro lifers don't consider that in their arguments.
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I didn't read a single word in this thread. So I apologize if this is redundant. But abortion is the one medical procedure that I would donate to. I mean, if there's a non-profit organization out there funding abortions and accepting charitable donations, that is the one charity I would consider supporting.
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Here's a choice:
Adoption
That's a great choice but there aren't enough children being adopted. Pro lifers don't consider that in their arguments.
That’s the problem with so many of the voices on this blog. It’s not part of their “argument”. The hell with arguments. How about solutions? I know a BEAUTIFUL “person” (I don’t want to violate TOS) that had a 50/50 chance of being aborted. No one here is going to persuade the other side to adopt their beliefs on abortion — it’s not going to happen. But what’s going on isn’t right. Try steering the conversation in a different direction. What are we going to do about it?
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