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At least they have a fucking plan. Wish we had one.
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They are doing something... making the funeral directors rich.
They have three times the mortality rate of Finland and Norway.
Dumbasses.
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"At least they have a fucking plan. Wish we had one."
And who do you suppose is responsible for that!
"I don't take responsibility at all" -trump
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We will see if Sweden's approach works better in the long run. Absent a vaccine, and depending upon whether SARS-CoV-2 continues, mutes or fizzles out, what Sweden is doing might actually work better in the long run. We keep hearing about herd immunity.....if more people have been infected and gotten over it, the less people to be newly infected or be carriers. The real problem with this virus is that so many people are asymptomatic and thus continue making contacts.
Sweden has decided on a more harsh reality for the present, but hope that it sets them up for far less issues in the future, including the upcoming flu season this winter. Ballsy move and we will see....
To say they are dumbasses....WE and the rest of the world may be the dumbasses....
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Swedes grew up watching The Seventh Seal. They're use to Death.
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I assure you Jazz, you would not survive Sweden's strategy.
You're old and fat, not a good combo in today's world.
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harthat...and you are aware of my size and physical condition how.....????? Oh that's right, pulling shit out of the air and blowing shit out your ass......
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Not pulling shit out of thin air. There was a post once about losing weight. You commented on it and said how much you wanted to lose, or was trying to lose. Don't remember the details.
All I remember is,damn, what a fat fuck!
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Almost all Americans are considered overweight based upon AMA tables. I am overweight like the rest....but I am in excellent physical health, exercise regularly, and do not consider myself with underlying medical conditions...but keep hoping, since you hate to have another person healthy and disagreeing with your sorry ass......
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Granite...I totally get that...it is amazing...the left tout themselves as people who are all inclusive and accepting, but they are the first to exclude anyone who disagrees with any of their opinions.
They compare Trump to Hitler, which to anyone who has done any research and review of the holocaust, probably the most ridiculous comparison they could probably make...but they do NO research, do not think logically and just love to name call and berate anyone with a contrary opinion.
I challenge all of my Democratic and left leaning friends to tell me if we are going to maintain open borders and allow any and all to come into this country and provide whatever benefits that citizens are afforded, what happens when a couple of billion people show up at our borders...how do we pay for it.....
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Stirring up xenophobia and making people feel like outsiders was one of the central political tactics used by Hitler. It is also something that is central to Trump's political identity. Now many other people, particularly authoritarians, have used it besides the two, but it is something they share in common, for sure.
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Jazz.. your last question is the ultimate quandary of Liberal policy that escapes all logic.
Why do they care about aliens, protecting the rights of illegals ( criminals no less ) and trying to give them all benefits?
Please dont quote that statue on Ellis Island...
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I realize it’s tough to not make this political... but that wasn’t my aim.
I was trying to be a bit more philosophical.
If you look at the chart in the article, Sweden per capita has about 1/3 higher Covid 19 mortality.
They clearly have deaths at a higher rate than its neighbors.
So in our case if our numbers were comparable to Sweden it took trashing the economy to save 30,000 people.
That is a lot of people... but is that enough (In your humble opinion) to justify the Economic damage?
Jazz... don’t feed the trolls. You can’t reason or convince bitter and angry people to be civil.
Some insults are fun... some are just mean spirited... some people are in too much pain to know the difference.
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Sweden has Saab, Volvo, Ericsson, Spotify and Ikea to name a few international companies. They also build their own warships, tanks and aircraft--not bad for a neutral Nordic country.
So yeah I think they've been doing it right 
Oh you mean about this Pandemic? They're Sweden and we're not. Different country, culture and government and population size. It's like comparing coconuts to cows.
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Night-rider... xenophobia is a left talking point.
It avoids answering the difficult questions because it smears the other side to diminish their position.
It’s similar to playing the race card. It bullies the person into submission because there is no way to communicate what is ACTUALLY in their heart... but the accusation is out there and has to be defended against.
Let’s say you do not know a person’s inner motivation.
What do you do with the cost of relaxed immigration policy (at best) or an open border policy (at worst)?
There is a struggle to manage healthcare and it’s costs now.
How do you do it?
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"Sweden is the 2nd healthiest country in the world with an average life expectancy of over 80 years."
And they are healthier than we are. A major factor whether such a plan should be implemented.
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NPembrush... you are right. Very different.
Swedes are more compliant. General pop tries to consider the Greater good and act accordingly.
In the U.S. we carry a spirit of rebellion. We say, “Fuck you! Make me!”
Example is OC beaches. They aren’t at the mall yelling, “Macy’s should be open! People should be working.”
They are at the beach saying, “You are trampling my constitutional rights by saying I can’t be on the sand next to the water!”
LOL
Retarded Americans. We always get things bass ackwards.
He is the philosophical question... Sweden was willing to risk mass sickness and death. We weren’t.
Who was right?
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"What do you do with the cost of relaxed immigration policy (at best) or an open border policy (at worst)?
There is a struggle to manage healthcare and its costs now.
How do you do it?"
These are excellent questions, and I wish that politicians, right-wing media, and people focused more on on these issues than in painting illegal immigrants as a horde trying to destroy our way of life.
I think the left also plays politics with this issue to favor votes from liberals and the hispanic community.
I feel that the comprehensive immigration reform bill during the Bush administration was a good compromise. Fix the border problem first (including an e-verify system that would prevent the hiring of illegal immigrants), then legalize those immigrants that have committed no other serious crime and have been living here for a while.
There is no need to disparage a group of people who are just trying to make better lives for themselves and their children.
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Yes I was being a troll, and Jazz doesn't deserve what I said.
I did it because he says the dumbest things in an educated way, often.
I remember his comment about not needing testing for the virus.
I'm like, What!! that's almost one of the most important parts of the puzzle.
And now a few weeks later it's verified over and over by the experts.
But I know he was just being a good little shill for trump.
It reminded me of the movie quote.
"Badges, we don't need no fucking badges!"
sorry jazz, oh, lay off the cup cakes!
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Some people just have to be a dick
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"Sweden was willing to risk mass sickness and death. We weren’t.
Who was right?"
The answer to that question remains to be seen as well. Like in many states in America, the number of new daily new cases seems stagnant in Sweden. Models predict they haven't been close to peaking yet in Sweden (unlike for many different American states), but that may be wrong. Maybe they are peaking now, like we are.
So if Sweden is going through a peak right now and cases start going down, even though they haven't had a lockdown, that begs the question, where else did lockdowns not need to occur?
However, there is still a cost to what Sweden is doing. They have had significantly more fatalities per capita than other Nordic nations. The cost of not doing the lockdowns may be just that, even though the dynamics of the infections may end up being rather similar, lockdown or not.
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With the sorry state of the general health of the US.
We would do much much worse than they are doing.
A huge factor.
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I will say I’m starting to get pissed off at some in the media portraying a careful, reasonable opening of the beaches as bad. If people socially distance, if the number of people are limited, and if people preferably wear masks when able, opening up the beaches in the fresh air is safe. The science suggests that. Don Lemon (who is not a scientist) saying he doesn’t think it does to some official from San Clemente demonstrates this elitist patronizing that’s going to get more people to rebel against common sense health provisions, which will make us all less safe.
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I don’t know, Hardhat. I think the biggest difference is that communities tend to be spread out in Sweden. There is a spatial component to infection dynamics. When people interact in densely populated areas — like in NY city, that’s going to be a big problem. But Sweden doesn’t have that problem for the most part.
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Sweden currently has a higher death rate. Let's see what it looks like in a year. If they basically kept the economy open and a year from now they per capita number of deaths are much closer to their neighbors, and they haven't overwhelmed their med system, then what will people say?
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do any of you realize the population of the entire country of Sweden is equal to Los Angeles County.
there is nowhere is Sweden that is similar to New York where the majority of the population crams into subways and elevators easily spreading viruses, hence the high number of cases in N.Y.
there is no way the U.S. can use Sweden as a model on how to handle the pandemic.
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Do you realize the entire United States is not like LA and NYC?
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do you realize people travel throughout the U,S, taking their virus with them?
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I'm not sharing mine, it's my virus and you can't have it.
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I said total testing would be futile. You test someone today that is negative, they can be positive tomorrow. Only daily universal testing can give you the reassurance you seem to want. Statistical sample testing of population bases to get better data makes sense. We don’t have enough money or tests to check 330 million Americans every fucking day.
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Careful, reasonable opening of beaches?
I was just down in Costa Mesa today to check on one of my businesses I am associated with as we discuss a smart opening of the shop.
Holy shit.
People are taking advantage of the conditions. Not full on pagan orgy at the beach, but touch football, no social distancing and LARGE clusters of people acting like everything is back to normal. Especially the liquor stores. The trash just can’t help but mingle with itself.
Nothing healthy here.
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Unfortunately people don’t seem to understand testing and statistics. And there are all types of tests, and what you learn is different. Do you want to know if the person has it or HAD it. Different tests. This testing is like STI testing. It is only good until the next contact. People clamoring for more testing have no clue what they are asking nor what they are trying to accomplish or learn.
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We send Sons, daughters, husbands and wives into harms way all the time. Most of the time to prop up the economy and for political reasons. We pray they make it home but we understand there will be casualties. Should we do the same in this situation? Just like in war, ultimately the decisions are made on a Political basis. We opted for a Political gamble that included a great risk to the economy on behalf of saving human lives. Pretty compassionate stance from a couple of old white conservative men. They must have seen something we have not. Got to have faith.
I think Sweden looks at it as caring for the whole; not the individual. It is a Socialist State.
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Pass the cupcakes, please
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Wow, pretty reasonable discussion in this blog other than Harthat.
Cats and dogs sleeping together for a change, lol
Kumbaya
Nice to see even @NR starting to figure it out finally. Yes, it's very difficult to get the viral load outdoors. WHO in Wuhan, a team from Harvard elsewhere, and others have studies showing that infection transmissability is correlated to close proximity for some prolonged period.
Swedish method won't be determined as successful or not for 6 to 12 months, at least.
More deaths now in order to build herd immunity if infection rates go back up in the fall, thats the trade off. How you factor in an economy that wasn't trashed, I don't know. They will take a hit due to worldwide recession but will be better positioned than others to come back.
Imho, N.Y. moved too slow due to primarily de Blasio. CA moved fast but in many areas too far. Hair Nuisance is finally noticing the political backlash. Newport is not enforcing the beach closure but the announcement scared a lot of people away, so pretty low numbers.
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It was nice to see a little gloom from Gloom Guy too
Thank you sir!
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I got a pm saying 10% could be the death threshold.
That’s 32 million. I can go with that if I get to pick at least 1000 of the 32 million.
And yes... some of you fuckers are on my list.
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I am so disappointed in this country. Things would be so different if we weren't so litigious.
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Kaiser, put me on your list.
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Sweden has six times the death rate of Finland and Norway.
Give Georgia a week or so to see a major uptick in their infection and death rates. Reopening of the state occurred last week, so it will take another week or so to see what results from that. The problem is if the spike does occur and it is bad, it will hurt the public’s perception of how safe it will be to go out freely once the social distancing restrictions are lifted.
Many Republican politicians have called for a reopening even if many people die as being an acceptable ”trade off”.
Reopening too early will actually slows down the recovery. The economy will recover only when demand recovers. Most people are smart enough to know that these restrictions are temporary, but potential death is permanent, so a good percentage of the public may disregard the lifting of restrictions if they perceive it to be rushed and still unsafe.
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shops here are trying to open up and having manager and employee issues...no one wants to come back and take less money than unemployment and be exposed this early...owner saying that extra 600 is fucking him hard right now. i think it runs thru mid or the end of july for the enhanced amts
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| There are 41 comments on this blog. |
