Contact Us/Help!
Handle:
Password:
Forget Your Password?    Join for FREE!
bigseekersb
Inland Empire, CA
22 blogs/941 comments
since Apr 23 2011

Level 2
AttributeLevel
Overall2
Safety2
Compliance2
Integrity2
Reliability2
Karma2
See Photo Albums
SCOTUS and Concealed Carry
Jun 23 2022 11:58AM more by bigseekersb
Tags: Inland Empire , Current Events (All tags)

The Supreme Court has decided 6-3 that New York State�s regulations on who can get a permit for concealed carry are unconstitutional.

Of course, some liberal hysterics are now saying that SCOTUS has decided �anyone can carry a firearm anywhere without restriction� and some folks on the opposite end of the spectrum are saying that SCOTUS just passed �constitutional carry�. Both statements are untrue.

The following is really long, but it is good info without all the partisan hype. I hope it is useful.

The US Supreme Court did not have a problem with applicant requirements like being mentally competent, being of legal age, and being free from certain types of criminal convictions that can be determined by the state.

They did have a problem with some government authority deciding who has a �special need� for concealed carry and who doesn�t, which is part of the New York framework the Court just struck down. (Five other states also have similar �special need� clauses, including California.) Laws that are arbitrary from one person to the next, or from one public official to the next, tend to be on shaky grounds with the Constitution. The 14th Amendment guarantees �equal protection� under the law and the 5th Amendment requires �due process�. Leaving a concealed-carry permit approval up to subjective judgment violates both principles.

SCOTUS now says states can have a permitting process, but the rules for denying a permit must be spelled out, based on non-subjective criteria and applied consistently. Those rules must rely on verifiable facts, not on some government official�s opinion. For instance, a state might deny CC permits on the basis of criminal convictions. If a misdemeanor conviction for negligent discharge of a firearm makes a person ineligible for a concealed-carry permit, then nobody with that conviction can have one, regardless of where they live or how some local sheriff feels about it. On the other hand, if the applicant meets the legal requirements, the permit can�t be denied on some subjective basis, like �poor character� or �insufficient need�.

As for which convictions would be legitimate grounds for denying a CC permit, I am sure there will be arguments about that. A state like California might decide that 3 speeding tickets shows a person is irresponsible and reckless, and therefore should not be allowed a CC permit. Another state might say that only felony convictions for violence or certain misdemeanor convictions that are firearm-related should bar issuance of a CC permit. That could be a whole different SCOTUS case, and probably will be someday, in my humble opinion.

Also, what about training requirements? How much training would be too much, placing an �undue burden� on people getting the permit?

Additionally, California has a bill that would require gun owners to have special liability insurance not required by other people. Considering most gun owners never have anything �bad� happen with their guns, is that a reasonable requirement for the exercise of a constitutional right? Probably not. Another SCOTUS case, maybe.

In summary, SCOTUS decided that states must use verifiable, objective criteria for not issuing concealed-carry permits. This has the practical effect of making all the states use a criteria of �shall issue unless legally barred by verifiable information laid out in statute�, while banning the criteria of �may issue on the basis of special need, if we decide to�. The majority opinion by Justice Clarence Thomas states the Court is unhappy with the way the federal appeals courts have been letting states treat the 2nd Amendment right as a �lesser right� than the others such as free speech, right to an attorney and so forth. The majority opinion states there is no justification for this.

Personally, I generally identify as a liberal, but I agree with SCOTUS on this one.

We are supposed to be a nation of laws, with certain constitutional rights guaranteed to us all, equally. That whole �special need� for a concealed carry permit opened the door to special treatment for some and it gave too much power to state and county bureaucracies to deny peoples� rights.

Here is a link to the actual decision itself.


Attached Links
PDF for Decision
      
There are 30 comments on this blog.
bigseekersb
Inland Empire, CA
22 blogs/941 comments
since Apr 23 2011

Level 2
AttributeLevel
Overall2
Safety2
Compliance2
Integrity2
Reliability2
Karma2
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 12:02PM     link to this

Sorry for the really crappy formatting. I guess typing it in Word first was a mistake.

The weird marks happen where I used a quote mark or an apostrophe.

Sorry.
longwalker
CA
3 blogs/2125 comments
since Apr 27 2017

Level 0
AttributeLevel
Overall0
Safety1
Compliance1
Integrity1
Reliability1
Karma1
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 01:07PM     link to this

The gun itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of it's own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes. But there are more good men than evil, and while the latter can not be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with guns.

Author Jeff Cooper

The NRA’s CEO, Wayne LaPierre
The NRA released a statement last week maintaining its long-held position that “banning guns from law-abiding Americans, based on the criminal act of a madman, will do nothing to prevent future attacks.”
Grumpy_Butthead
NM
2174 blogs/22728 comments
since Jan 30 2016

Level 4
AttributeLevel
Overall4
Safety5
Compliance5
Integrity5
Reliability5
Karma5
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 02:27PM     link to this

Thanks for the link. It is a clean read.
sherkahn
Diamond Bar, SGV, LA, CA
Pomona, Inland Empire, CA Today!
1113 blogs/5529 comments
since Apr 27 2008

Level 2
AttributeLevel
Overall2
Safety2
Compliance3
Integrity3
Reliability3
Karma2
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 02:41PM     link to this

The arguments behind the judgement are sound legal, I have no issues or questions with the decision.

Justice Alito’s near rant afterwards sounds like he has become a bitter old man and brings up questions of competence and proper behavior for a Justice.
SeymourButz
Humboldt, CA
135 blogs/3934 comments
since Apr 3 2022

Level 0
AttributeLevel
Overall0
Safety0
Compliance0
Integrity0
Reliability0
Karma0
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 02:47PM     link to this

Guns are not the problem.
The politicians who are trying to take them away are.
Have you noticed there is more gun violence in the news today. There has always been horrible shootings since Winchester, Colt, Smith and Wesson started mass producing them.
But lately more and more shootings have been making headlines.
It's part of the demonization of the 2nd Ammendment campaign. Democrats eventually want the mass public to be without the ability to defend themselves from a tyrannical government. We will be left to throwing stones at military Marshal Law. What a joke. Throwing stones at armored men and vehicles.
Criminal element will always have access to guns. And why do I get prosecuted for shooting at a person kicking my door in to steal and harm anyone under my roof.
All I'm trying to is live in peace and to See More Butts.
yellowB2
Mission Viejo, OC, CA
14 blogs/1909 comments
since Sep 21 2016

Level 2
AttributeLevel
Overall2
Safety2
Compliance2
Integrity2
Reliability1
Karma2
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 03:05PM     link to this

Whenever a government is trying to take your guns away, that signals that they are about to do something to you that you'd try to shoot them for.

See Nazi Germany, Cuba, Venezuela, et al.

InsearchofStarfish
Santa Ana, OC, CA
741 blogs/13135 comments
since Nov 17 2008

Level 2
AttributeLevel
Overall2
Safety3
Compliance2
Integrity2
Reliability2
Karma3
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 04:00PM     link to this

in the meantime, a bill coming out of the senate


bwana
Santa Monica, LA, CA
155 blogs/6021 comments
since Jul 3 2007

Level 5
AttributeLevel
Overall5
Safety5
Compliance5
Integrity5
Reliability5
Karma5
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 04:10PM     link to this

This ruling has nothing to do with taking away guns.


The LASD has always made it impossible to obtain a CCW permit. Cops would prefer that no one is allowed to carry a gun. Maybe this will change things.
Yourbaby_Fiji
Irvine, OC, CA
81 blogs/553 comments
since Jun 14 2022

Level 3
AttributeLevel
Overall3
Safety4
Compliance4
Integrity3
Reliability3
Karma3
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 04:40PM     link to this

Speaking of .. does anyone want to teach me gun saftey / how to shoot ?
I want to be able to protect myself .. message me if you wanna go on a date to a shooting range
InsearchofStarfish
Santa Ana, OC, CA
741 blogs/13135 comments
since Nov 17 2008

Level 2
AttributeLevel
Overall2
Safety3
Compliance2
Integrity2
Reliability2
Karma3
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 07:11PM     link to this

in general...that would be a fun fun date

Angler1
CA
90 blogs/5963 comments
since Jan 6 2008

Level 2
AttributeLevel
Overall2
Safety3
Compliance2
Integrity3
Reliability3
Karma3
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 07:30PM     link to this

"The gun itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of it's own"

I don't know about that, my AR likes to be close to my .357 mag, while ignoring my 9mm.
wunanddun
City of San Diego, San Diego, CA
21 blogs/1610 comments
since Dec 24 2013

Level 0
AttributeLevel
Overall0
Safety0
Compliance0
Integrity0
Reliability0
Karma0
Jun 23 2022 07:45PM     link to this

"Cops would prefer....."

They should educate themselves...see the link below.
Attached Links
Cops safer - public just as safe
https://crimeresearch.org/2022/01/changes-in-crime-and-killings-of-police-after-constitutional-carry-adopted/
InsearchofStarfish
Santa Ana, OC, CA
741 blogs/13135 comments
since Nov 17 2008

Level 2
AttributeLevel
Overall2
Safety3
Compliance2
Integrity2
Reliability2
Karma3
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 07:54PM     link to this

if in MAUI...gotta do this

VIEWS are amazing

each station to shoot from is like a golf tee...each shot is very different...some roll and hop like rabbits and some buzz by you like falcons


btw...hate guns G/U with them

except for all the useless paint guns i had to get for the PB initiation crap and didn't even make it in...some bullshit masturbatory clauses







Attached Links
https://www.yelp.com/biz/maui-spo
wunanddun
City of San Diego, San Diego, CA
21 blogs/1610 comments
since Dec 24 2013

Level 0
AttributeLevel
Overall0
Safety0
Compliance0
Integrity0
Reliability0
Karma0
Jun 23 2022 08:02PM     link to this

"Justice Alito’s near rant ..."

Have you read it and come away with the exact same opinion of the "journalist" who's article you skimmed over?

Breyer sounds unhinged if one is to interpolate emotion the words that a Justice wrote. He is taking great pain at worrying about the states responsibility without consideration of his own... "...the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

A Justice should be deciding the constitutionality of a states requirement not worrying about whether it is cumbersome for the state to adhere to the constitution. If it's cumbersome your law probably goes too far.

The liberal justice wants to read into the constitution rights thar don't exist and ignore the enumerated rights... except in the cases where an acceptable group needs to exercise them. The rights apply to rich, poor ethnic minority or majority or whatever segment of society you wish. It's when you consciously decide to go outside of the constitution or carve an exception that you go in to the realm of creating law through judgements which are what?......

Unconstitutional!
remo_williams
Irvine, OC, CA
16 blogs/1133 comments
since Feb 14 2006

Level 2
AttributeLevel
Overall2
Safety3
Compliance3
Integrity2
Reliability2
Karma3
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 08:37PM     link to this

That's the problem in restricting a "natural" right.

Once you get government involved, it's applied unevenly, and those with connections, or money they can find a way around it.

Sounds like a good decision.
Night-Rider
OC, CA
71 blogs/5312 comments
since Jul 23 2019

Level 2
AttributeLevel
Overall2
Safety3
Compliance3
Integrity2
Reliability3
Karma3
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 08:40PM     link to this

Americans love their guns.
Night-Rider
OC, CA
71 blogs/5312 comments
since Jul 23 2019

Level 2
AttributeLevel
Overall2
Safety3
Compliance3
Integrity2
Reliability3
Karma3
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 08:43PM     link to this

“banning guns...will do nothing to prevent future attacks.”

LMAO!
Night-Rider
OC, CA
71 blogs/5312 comments
since Jul 23 2019

Level 2
AttributeLevel
Overall2
Safety3
Compliance3
Integrity2
Reliability3
Karma3
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 08:46PM     link to this

I need to get myself a pellet gun where I'm staying and shoot those toads that keep me up half the night.
InsearchofStarfish
Santa Ana, OC, CA
741 blogs/13135 comments
since Nov 17 2008

Level 2
AttributeLevel
Overall2
Safety3
Compliance2
Integrity2
Reliability2
Karma3
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 08:56PM     link to this

maybe aim for a woke white liberal chick IN THE ASS with that thing(the ones with all the white guilt) VS a poor little frog


that's fucked up man
Mr.Horndog
City of San Diego, San Diego, CA
50 blogs/1169 comments
since May 9 2013

Level 1
AttributeLevel
Overall1
Safety1
Compliance2
Integrity1
Reliability1
Karma1
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 10:54PM     link to this

I hope today's Supreme Court decision will eventually affect California as well, but overall I don't think it makes society safer. There are too many people who are not responsible enough to own a gun. I think the age limit should be raised to 25 (when the brain matures) and the 10 day waiting period should be applied nationwide. If you're under age 25, you should be more concerned with your education or enjoying life, than shooting. Also, straw purchasers, traffickers, and parents should be held liable when someone is shot with a gun they purchased or sold. The gun you buy today may eventually be sold, resold, stolen and used by a criminal.
Mr.Horndog
City of San Diego, San Diego, CA
50 blogs/1169 comments
since May 9 2013

Level 1
AttributeLevel
Overall1
Safety1
Compliance2
Integrity1
Reliability1
Karma1
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 10:58PM     link to this

I'm referring to the civilian population only.
GoBallsDeep
Fullerton, OC, CA
152 blogs/11237 comments
since Dec 12 2019

Level 0
AttributeLevel
Overall0
Safety1
Compliance1
Integrity1
Reliability1
Karma1
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 11:11PM     link to this

CA bullshit and OCSD bullshit will go up in flames
I can go back and reinstate my CCW now
OCSD took it away cause I didn't have a "good reason" to carry

Fucking idiot Progs have created a society where everybody feels like they need to pack heat
Just don't get me in a crosswise or I'll have to put you down
Peace out

Angler1
CA
90 blogs/5963 comments
since Jan 6 2008

Level 2
AttributeLevel
Overall2
Safety3
Compliance2
Integrity3
Reliability3
Karma3
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 11:14PM     link to this

Like a lot of people these days, carry anyway.
GoBallsDeep
Fullerton, OC, CA
152 blogs/11237 comments
since Dec 12 2019

Level 0
AttributeLevel
Overall0
Safety1
Compliance1
Integrity1
Reliability1
Karma1
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 11:20PM     link to this

My 12 gauge is in the car with game load handy
I will fuck you up if you change lanes without a signal
Also used to intimidate Jack in the Box
Creepy fucker
Angler1
CA
90 blogs/5963 comments
since Jan 6 2008

Level 2
AttributeLevel
Overall2
Safety3
Compliance2
Integrity3
Reliability3
Karma3
See Photo Albums
Jun 23 2022 11:27PM     link to this

Those lane changing sum bitches, you almost need a 50 caliber on board...
InsearchofStarfish
Santa Ana, OC, CA
741 blogs/13135 comments
since Nov 17 2008

Level 2
AttributeLevel
Overall2
Safety3
Compliance2
Integrity2
Reliability2
Karma3
See Photo Albums
Jun 24 2022 12:07AM     link to this

i'm not good with any dickwad carrying a gun

tacobandit
Glendale, SFV, LA, CA
12 blogs/408 comments
since Aug 20 2007

Level 1
AttributeLevel
Overall1
Safety2
Compliance1
Integrity0
Reliability0
Karma2
Jun 24 2022 02:59AM     link to this

AW ban, high cap mag restriction, gun roster and ammo regulations will burn down next

Cant wait to unneuter my ARs
scooterdad
Buena Park, OC, CA
0 blogs/21 comments
since Jul 7 2007

Level 1
AttributeLevel
Overall1
Safety2
Compliance2
Integrity1
Reliability2
Karma2
Jun 24 2022 06:07AM     link to this

First time gun buyers should have to take a class. You can't drive a car without a license. Why should you be able to buy a gun with no training, this is just stupid, Why should I wait 10 days to buy a gun if I have one or more already, The ten day wait is for a back round check and cooling off pierid.
I think if we have all new gun owners to take a class and learn how to handle a firearm correctly before purchase we can stop a lot of negligent discharges. Just my 2 cent's
Hentaidoll
Florida
160 blogs/177 comments
since Sep 28 2020

Level 2
AttributeLevel
Overall2
Safety2
Compliance3
Integrity2
Reliability2
Karma2
See Photo Albums
Jun 24 2022 06:25AM     link to this

Trump and DeSantis 2024 lgb!
GoBallsDeep
Fullerton, OC, CA
152 blogs/11237 comments
since Dec 12 2019

Level 0
AttributeLevel
Overall0
Safety1
Compliance1
Integrity1
Reliability1
Karma1
See Photo Albums
Jun 24 2022 11:16AM     link to this

I got no problem with reasonable requirements like background check, juvenile check, mental health check, waiting period, etc. As long as requirements are applied equally to all applicants and doesn't include BS about the sheriff making a "personal" decision to decline.

There are 30 comments on this blog.