Some of you lefties that freely virtue signal Ukraine support should read the story.
It points out that Ukraine is anything but a Democracy but instead has its roots in Nazi style fascism. Plain and simple.
To me, the support we give to Ukraine now is reminiscent of how we supported Iraq in the 1980's against Iran. We made Saddam militarily stronger only to have to take him down ten years later.
From OP's story...
"“Many people in Ukraine have not accepted the policy of the Kiev authorities to rehabilitate Nazism and incite hatred towards everything connected with Russia,” Shoigu went on.
“Official Kiev, has openly declared itself heir and successor to the cause of the bloody Ukrainian nationalists. The Verkhovna Rada [legislature] has proclaimed fighters of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army as fighters for national independence. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, everything was done in Washington to turn Ukraine into the antipode of Russia. The promotion of legislation banning the Russian language, Russian media, Russian culture—everything related to our country—was encouraged”
he said. Those who refused to accept the Nazi aspirations of the Kiev regime were targeted by a “brutal punitive operation.”
'We made Saddam militarily stronger only to have to take him down ten years later.'
We DIDN'T have to take him out. That was, is, and will always be - a lie. A fraud. Perpetrated on the people to keep the military industrial complex rolling in cash. The same can be said for this war. We're depleting our weapon stores and who's going to restock them? ratheon, gd and all the rest of the arms dealers/manufacturers.
It's another lie.
Both bush and cheny deserve to be sharing a cell in the Hague and die there.
The problem isn't that we're supporting Ukraine, although the rhetoric that we're 'defending democracy' is complete bullshit as zalensky is a dictator, it's that biden et.al. have come out and said they want the war to continue 'to weaken russia'. THAT'S the problem.
So they refuse to try and find a way to end it through negotiation and instead want it to continue - without end just like afghanistan, iraq, syria etc.
So yeah this is a war to keep the 'mic' rolling in dough. Nothing more and nothing less.
It's exactly what Eisenhower warned us about and has come to fruition over the last 20 years.
we'll it is...defending it in most of the surrounding areas of europe btw. that's one of the problems with people trying to make their arguments all the time...honing in and taking a statement too literally and thinking it's the end all be all of reasons and things
does it really mean in the one country that was getting pummelled beyond imagination?
"if trump was in the WH now...the same AID would be flowing in."
The Ukraine invasion shouldn't have happened.
I'm going out on a limb saying that if Trump was still in office the following things would have happened...
1) The Nordstreim 2 sanctions Trump put in place keeping Putin in check would NOT have been lifted in Jan of 2021.
2) The Afghanistan exit under Trump would have been far more orderly and staged based on established conditions not allowing the Taliban to take over like savages before Americans and allies had first departed. We would still hold Bagram with a security force.
3) The US would still have energy independence and the ability to support western European countries with natural gas as well as meet domestic needs.
4) The 3 items above happening in the manner described above would have a significant deterrent effect on Putin's desire to invade Ukraine.
But instead we ended up with Joe in the WH... He lifted sanctions, killed energy independence, completely fucked up Afghanistan.
Putin saw his perfect stars align with Biden in charge. Putin was held at bay when Trump was around. Before Trump, Putin created problems when Obama/Biden held office.
"the rhetoric that we're 'defending democracy' is complete bullshit as zalensky is a dictator, it's that biden et.al. have come out and said they want the war to continue 'to weaken russia'."
Zalensky a dictator? That sounds like Russian propaganda. It seems like most of the world is united in support of Ukraine and Zelensky. And Russia started this invasion, they can stop at anytime.
"russian special operation"
It's an invasion, not a special operation.
"There's a distinct reason our country has suddenly become a complete joke on the world stage since Joe came along."
You are delusional. Trump was impeached for trying to blackmail Ukraine. Our allies lost confidence in us during Trump's presidency.
My alternative plan? Leaders that would actually lead - if you want to support Ukraine for a short period, great, but should also be trying to negotiate and end.
Someone like ...
'It seems like most of the world is united in support of Ukraine and Zelensky'
Just cause they supported zelensky doesn't make them right and yes he's a dictator.
What else would you call someone that arrested his opposition and seized control of the media when it turned against him?
The only thing Trump could have done to give our NATO freinds a reason to lose confidence is the notion they can lazily assume America is there footing most of the bill while they dont pay their share and get oil from Putin.
Trump gave them the rude awakening about that conflict of interest. The know it big time right now.
"Just cause they supported zelensky doesn't make them right and yes he's a dictator.
What else would you call someone that arrested his opposition and seized control of the media when it turned against him?"
It sounds like you're describing what Trump wanted.
Zelensky was trying to combat Russian meddling and misinformation. He didn't want traitors serving as a Putin puppet government.
I think the United Nations Security Council has more insight into Ukraine than Joe Rogan and Tulsi Gabbard.
"The only thing Trump could have done to give our NATO freinds a reason to lose confidence is the notion they can lazily assume America is there footing most of the bill while they dont pay their share and get oil from Putin."
The world lost confidence when Trump welcomed and asked for Russia to interfere in our elections. When he praised dictators. When he abused the power of his office. When he politicized our justice system, etc.
Here's a link to story where Tulsi explain what the real threat to Democracy is. From a moderate Democrat no doubt.
From the story in Tulsi's words...
"The greatest threat to our democracy is not Trump voters or parents protesting at school board meetings, but the permanent Washington elite which has weaponized the govt and teamed up with corporate media to intimidate and silence those who dare to disagree with them."
give an example of what you think a negotiation will look like. IF it was only about helping UKR here.
maybe just give russia the whole coastline...go in about 100 miles? UKR is fighting to the death to prevent that from happening. should they just move and let russia have it all?
stop it with Tulsi gabbard...she still has snot in her nose...kinda like old dudes taking in every last syllable out of GRETA's mouth. like she knows anything about anything at that age
@jackrabbit33, how do you think the rest of the world views Trump as an election denier in the United States? He's been a disaster and an embarrassment to our country. You seem to be beyond lost though, a total fucking idiot. Fucking degenerate maga turd.
It's amazing, but not surprising, how many Trump fans are so ignorant that they believe a Russian propagandist PR story over American intelligence + what Russian and Ukrainian citizens are saying on the ground. A fascist socialist country with a dictator that shut down its own independent press so easily gains a bunch of unpaid tools that hate America, but don't know that they hate America, just by announcing a convention! It actually would've been funny if it weren't so pathetic.
Yeah, you think MSNBC and CNN are biased, but not the Russian state media. Forget MSNBC and CNN, Fox News and Rupert Murdoch's media network calls Russia out for what it is -- a fascist dictatorship. Ukraine had a democratic election.
You're just mad that Trump, Rudy Giuliani and Paul Manafort failed to instigate a coup in Ukraine, just like how they failed to pull off one here. How sad is it to do the bidding of another country against your own and not even be paid?
For those of you who don't like Trump, do you think Biden will improve things?
I believe there is more misery to come for many while Joe is POTUS.
So far I seem to be prepared.
I'm glad to see those of you who don't like Trump are willing to support
the millions of illegals who will be in your neighborhood soon. .đź‘Ť
One of my new tenants at a property are former illegals who got their paper work cleared up, got reliable jobs that everyone else would complain about and got their families into contributing roles.in the community, even helping other who are in their former situation to get the right kind of help.
Fuck yeah I will take more of “them” over the ungrateful, arrogant asses who proudly wear “Trump 2024” shorts while asking me for change at my gas station songbry can buy a beer.
landlords have said over and over...they would pick a mexican family over white and black families most of the time...i've heard this for over 40 years
they take a lot of pride in where they live and keep things nice.
Fuck yeah I will take more of “them” over the ungrateful, arrogant asses who proudly wear “Forgive My College Debt” shorts while asking me for change at my gas station songbry can buy a beer.
Idiots who still believe that Russian Collusion affected the 2016 election = Idiots who believe that the 2020 election was stolen
You guys are funny, thinking that if you post it enough times........that will somehow make it true
And now that we know Raku is a card carrying, decoder ring wearing, loud and proud communist/socialist..........his comments can be ignored completely. But but but.......i did lots of reading and homework and Marx is my main man
'give an example of what you think a negotiation will look like. IF it was only about helping UKR here.'
Well let's start with everyone back to their corners.
Possible, not really but gotta start somewhere the important thing would be to at least get them to the table then can start figuring out what it's going to take to mediate a peace.
'stop it with Tulsi gabbard'
Why?
She's imminently qualified - served 20 years in the military and now carries the rank of Lt. Colonel but started as a private and rose through the ranks. Served 8 years in congress and was on several foreign affairs committees. So she knows both legislative/foreign affairs and military arenas.
In fact she's more qualified then trump, desantis, biden, warren, Bernie etc..
She's never veered from her base - that the government is supposed to serve the people not the people are supposed to serve the government. Although her views have evolved as she's gotten more experience.
She's willing to talk before the shooting starts and wants to keep the U.S. out of idiotic conflicts like the one we're embroiled in now i.e. not cow tow to the mic.
Name someone else that's better qualified. Not based on their age.
So, sorry but can't comply with your request.
Plus you asked for an alternative. There's my alternative.
I think maybe I got Raku mixed up with M4Boobs but well, they're probably the same person anyway with 2 different accounts.......I mean, how many true socialists can there be? That takes a special kind of retarded brain.
And, I don't know shit about Gabbard but if she said this
"The greatest threat to our democracy is not Trump voters or parents protesting at school board meetings, but the permanent Washington elite which has weaponized the govt and teamed up with corporate media to intimidate and silence those who dare to disagree with them."
then, I'm listening.
Woodrow Wilson started all this shit over 100 years ago, government by the "elite" university trained expert. For those of you who like this kind of thing, he's the one that started the Federal Reserve, graduated tax system and the League of Nations...........almost all failures by any measure.
You should, listen to her that is. If for nothing else just to get a different perspective then make up your mind.
I'm not saying she's the end all beat all although I'm staunchly in her camp.
I am saying that people should at least listen to what she's said and is saying THEN make up their mind about her.
'landlords have said over and over...they would pick a mexican family over white and black families most of the time...i've heard this for over 40 years'
Not discounting what you've heard but ... no one I know will rent to any mexican families or people that are here illegally.
Everyone of them that has has seen their place completely trashed, over crowded with tenants that aren't on the lease, cars parked in the front yards not on the street or driveway etc.
Example: Friend of mine rented out a 2 bed 2 bath to 2 guys that were illegal. First time he went to check on the place, about 1 1/2 months after signing the lease, he found 10 other people living there and cars parked every where. That's 12 people living in 2 bed 2 bath.
Happens, now, more often then not cause they can't afford the rents so pool their money and wind up overwhelming the plumbing, electrical etc.
military service fine (i like that part)...hearing her speak to rogan...i made it thru 4min.
be a governor...make some decisions that matter, go against the grain when you have to... let's see if that is possible on a governor level. i don't see it here...so far with her.
i'll go listen to some other things on her
maybe see what she is thinking about china, open borders and hopefully keeping American streets safe
"You're just mad that Trump, Rudy Giuliani and Paul Manafort failed to instigate a coup in Ukraine, just like how they failed to pull off one here. "
OK so it seems the Jan 6th circus act is done since the only RINO's wont be back next term and the committee will repurpose itself to investigate why security broke down. That's why they moved on to raiding Trumps home.
A coup in Ukraine?... WTF
Is this the next hoax after the Mar a Lago raid falls apart?
"For those of you who don't like Trump, do you think Biden will improve things?"
Biden has improved many things and things are getting back to normal. When Biden took over our country was a total shit show. You seem to think the guy born with a silver spoon, who's only worked for his father and had no governing experience would make a good president. Trump would never have been president if stupid people weren't allowed to vote.
And the Russians did interfere and influence the 2016 election and continue to do so. Whether you like it or not, that is a fact. You might want to reconsider who you support as an American if your candidate supports Putin.
'be a governor...make some decisions that matter, go against the grain when you have to... let's see if that is possible on a governor level. i don't see it here...so far with her.'
We've had 4 presidents since the 80's who were governors - carter, rayguns, clinton & bush lite.
All of them were complete disasters for the country -
carter: we know,
rayguns - Began the dismantling of the middle class, pushed the 'global economy' and pushed for the shutting down our manufacturing base - so now our supply chain is fucked, encouraged companies to move to mexico, canada etc shutting down manufacturing and taking great paying jobs with them AND making us reliant on those countries as well as our supply chain is fucked, a failed, and proven worthless, economic policy: 'trickle down, more then doubled the national debt etcetc. We're still living with those policies since every pres since has followed them and the country is worse for them.
clinton - kept rayguns policies in tact, as has every pres since which have proved disastrous, pushed the continued dismantling of our manufacturing base, nafta, also increased the national debt, part of the washington elite and pushing the continuation of government for the elite etc
bush lite - completely corrupt and proven lier - should be in a cell in the Hague along with cheny.
Being a governor means NOTHING.
Or do you think newsome would make a good pres just because he was a governor?
Go against the grain, fine: Just the fact that she's against all the wars, and has spoken out against them, that the U.S. has been in the last 20 years IS going against the grain. But add to that that she constantly talks about the U.S. government being a place that's supposed to be serving the people. no corruption has ever been laid at her feet, hillary hates her and the dem party/dnc, who once had her as a rising star, have now disowned her.
The last one for me is the kicker.
She goes against the grain constantly.
'not sure i said illegal? just talking about mexican families VS white, black'
True but you can't tell the difference between legal and illegal - can't ask for green card etc.
So they just refuse to rent to mexican families, couples or singles that are 'blue collar' workers. If they're teachers, engineers etc they'll probably take a chance but other then that it's a hard pass for them.
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