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She also claimed that a fetal heartbeat is a manufactured sound designed to convince people that men have a right to control a woman's body.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you "the Party of Science".
And now she denies that she ever claimed that she refused to concede the 2018 gubernatorial election. Despite being being on record as doing just that. Multiple times.
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hmmph. If the ultrasound pick up anything around 6 weeks, it's not a hear beat from a heart that's pumping blood from one chamber to the next. It may be electrical activity from essentially a tube, and that's it.
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She will lose for sure after this comment.
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From the Washington Examiner (and yes, it's a right-leaning publication. But at least they quote some scientific articles. I started to read an MSNBC article on the same subject, but the author didn't even try to refute the premise; she just went off on a tangent by claiming that having a heart doesn't make one a person):
A 2011 article in the Journal of Prenatal Medicine noted : “At the end of the fourth week of gestation, the heartbeats of the embryo begin.”
The authors, obstetricians in Italy, continued, “The heart, whose development starts at the 3rd week of gestation, has rapid and irregular contractions capable of pumping the blood inside the vessels.” Journal articles with statements like this are everywhere.
Here’s a 2009 journal article about “the normal range of embryonic heart rate and fetal heart rate at six to 11 weeks of gestation.” Would Abrams argue that a six-week in-utero baby has a “heart rate” but no “heartbeat?" That would be quite an assertion. Or would she say this journal article, whose primary author is a Polish doctor specializing in fetal cardiology, is in on the conspiracy to control women’s bodies?
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You're an idiot nr...
Please keep posting.. 
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12 times Stacy Abrams denied losing the 2018 election (and again, it's from a right-leaning publication. And? These are still recorded instances that actually happened).
https://freebeacon.com/politics/12-times-stacey-abrams-said-she-got-cheated-in-georgia/
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Its amazing what shit will come out of someone's mouth when their head is twisted the knot of Woke stupidity.
Clearly the 2011 article in the Journal of Prenatal Medicine was referring to a "woman" (whatever that is...) when it stated “At the end of the fourth week of gestation, the heartbeats of the embryo begin.”
Would Abrams argue that a six-week in-utero baby has a “heart rate” but no “heartbeat?"
Yeah... That is clearly what happens when a Woke stricken man gets pregnant.
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Wait. The President himself said that inflation is under control, and that the US is doing great. What's to solve? I've also been told by an esteemed HX member that a particular group of people have bigger things to worry about than inflation.
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The heart has a lot of morphological changes in the first 16 weeks of development. Yes, the heart can have a cardiac rhythm or "heart beat" early on and can begin to pump blood early, but this is misleading because the heart still has to go through separation of chambers, formation of valves, and formation of the aorta. The heart is very different at 11 weeks than it was at 6 weeks.
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Is it just me or does anyone get nr's point 🤔. I mean electrical activity is something that happens in every human ...is this somehow not an indication of life?
When you get shocked back to life with a defibrillator.... can we legally kill you because you got Jumpstarted by an external electrical charge? Seems reasonable... hell planned parenthood could hire themselves out as hit men if you can prove the person had been resuscitated by defibrillator. Could be enough money in that to not have to get funding from the government .... hey they could even harvest kidneys lungs and hearts tooo yeah what a boon!!
The mental gymnastics a person of "science" will put themselves through to deny exactly that... science without the quotes.
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"The heart has a lot of morphological changes in the first 16 weeks of development."
And the body as well as the brain up to the mid 20s.... while those early gestational changes are drastic and one can argue mostly previability they are indeed indicators of life.
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This is tiresome. All of you are more interested in reveling in your hatred of women than using your own ears. Play the tape. She never once says abortion could solve inflation. She says having a child is directly related to worries about the economy, which is objectively true.
I will not even go deeply into the fetal heartbeat, it is too ridiculous. In 6 weeks a fetus is 7-8 millimeters long and has no heart, just a cluster of cells with electricity that can be detected.
Frankly, all of you are pathetic.
You are feral idiot man-children wandering the digital ruins of exploding masculinity, desperately scrounging for the Red Pill of incel confirmation bias.
You go to platforms like this to shore up your eroding self importance where you can spout entitled bilge which if you spoke out loud in real life you know you would be reviled by whatever friends or family you have left.
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^ frankly you are the pathetic one. She clearly stated that an ultrasound is a manipulation that the patriarchy uses to manipulate women. Hardly the case and the sound amplified by device is the babies heartbeat. Whether or not a woman wants to abort was not the point of the statement the point was men want to enslave women and while you might agree with her... I don't.. quit trying to make every thing about power and race ... and if you can't do that ... go to the next pussy hat rally you will fit right in... better yet consult with a gender affirming care provider .. I support your effort to be the vagina God obviously made you but put in the wrong body.
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"...you can't divorce being forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy from the economic realities of having a ...."
Gee, sure sounds to me like she is saying that abortion is a means of freeing up spending money.
And she said that in response to a question about what she can do as a governor to address inflation.
I don't buy that abortion leads to a better life. Many of the loudest abortion proponents are financially stable, educated and white. They have a good life because they do the three things that have been statistically correlated with avoiding poverty: finish high school, have a full time job, and wait until after marriage to have children. All of those are within the capability of nearly every able-bodied man and woman, regardless of race, yet the Left seems to believe that people of color lack those capabilities. Further, we've had legal abortion for 50 years. Two generations. Shouldn't everyone have been lifted out of poverty be now?
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You'd be crazy to leave poverty while the guvmint is paying you to stay that way.
Just like in LA
As an NGO, why would you actually solve homelessness if they're paying you to pretend to solve it?
If you solved it, you'd lose your job and become...........homeless.
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Sowell, a black economist who grew up dirt poor, has written voluminously on the negative effects the "War on Poverty" from the '60's had on black America. Just read some of his books and you'll realize how dangerous it is when Whitey shows up at your door and says "I'm here to help".
Still happening today. These fucking guvmint greens are going into poor neighborhoods right now and trying to sell these folks on switching to all electric homes with solar panels and all that shit. It's literally fucking crazy and most of the po' folk are just saying GTFOH bitch, ain't got no time for you throwing tax payer dollars away while I need 5 jobs to survive. Green Whitey is fucking dangerous.
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Best way not to have an abortion is to not get pregnant. Duh!
Abrahms believes that having an abortion is good for one's financial well-being.
Wait! One of the main reasons that women, particularly Black women have
abortions is that they cannot afford to support the child.
This belief that the unborn child has no value is sad.
Destroying unborn children is BAD KARMA!
Black Lives Matter even with the unborn!
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Well, except we'd all be better off if Abrams had been aborted.
So, there's that.
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You'd think a group of people that generally likes bb from sex workers would be more sympathetic to pro-abortion arguments... maybe everyone here secretly wants to get the girls pregnant and force them to carry their fetuses to term?
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^ You'd think that some dumbasses would realize that many people think unrestricted abortions is a fucking crazy idea. But no you just want to characterize people with limits as being out of step with the population when in fact they are right with 70-80% of the population.
But you knew that you are just being a horrible person.
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When a mother dies from complications in childbirth WTF
Doesn't that make her unborn fetus a murderer.
Go full death penalty on that baby.
Electricity = Life
what about the brain dead?
9 out of 10 men on this blog have complained often and at length about how bad it is when the state intervenes in peoples lives, Everything and everyone is totally incompetent in every version of every system that you all can imagine. So why do you think a system that tells women how to act is going to be some slamming success. Do you know any actual women? My god.
Seriously, none of you dudes have any business telling women what to do with their lives.
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Just saw that T-Shirt......
"Gay Sex Prevents Abortions, Suck a Cock for Jesus"
Is that really pro LGBTQ?
Reminds me of the old "Save the Gay Whales for Jesus"
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"Seriously, none of you dudes have any business telling women what to do with their lives."
I don't see a problem with "yeah baby, do it just like that"
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So did you do it? (suck a cock for jesus) What was the outcome?
Did the big man give you a pat on the back.
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Isn't that why we're here,
so we can say "yeah baby do it like that."
OF COURSE IT IS.
but this just proves my point, it's a fantasy that costs.
I try telling women what to do in my regular life all the time, but I still end up paying for it some way or another.
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"You can't make this stuff up!"
Unless you're Stacey Abrams.
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Frank Frank Frank..... just stop..... the gymnastics you re going through to say yeah it's ok abort at 9 months whatever the reason is beneath you.
Personally IDGAF if someone thinks my point of view is unreasonable... if you are thinking of mid to late 2nd trimester abortions as acceptable ....I don't want to know you.
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"Seriously, none of you dudes have any business telling women what to do with their lives."
Yeah, the government interfering with laws against murder and other forms of violence. The nerve!
There's another person intimately involved. I think your right to bodily autonomy ends when it directly causes the immediate death of someone else, at no danger to your own life. I don't have to be the same gender or in the same circumstance as either person to hold that view. I don't think people should drive drunk, and I get to hold that view even though I'm not an alcoholic.
Are their exceptions? Sure. But that's not what the Left is talking about, is it? They went from abortion should be safe, legal and rare to abortion on demand, no excuses, even after delivery if the procedure is initially "unsuccessful". Meaning the woman has full control of her body back, but the doctor needs to finish the job. And the Left seems to be completely comfortable with that. They even celebrate it.
How many of the guys here have managed not to get anyone pregnant? Is it really that difficult a thing? How do you feel about guys who pass on an STD or impregnate someone and then just shrug off the responsibility? How about if they could make the result go away by taking a life? Would you be ok with that?
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And yes, I wore my mask and I got my shots.
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*Are there exceptions?
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uh, no, a functional group of cells -- not necessarily a living organism -- can produce significant electrical activity. In fact, a group of scientists successfully turned skin cells into beating heart tissue outside of the body.
Is this beating heart tissue a life?
I would argue that, yes, at 20 weeks or before, you are alive, but you have more in common with a fish embryo than you do a human being. What makes us human ("I think therefore I am") is lacking, since there is no frontal cortex to think or feel pain. They have less than mature fish brains at this point. At least this is what developmental neurobiology tells us.
Things change by 24 weeks, which is also the time when viability comes into play, which is why I think a cap on abortion at 24 weeks, except when the mother's life is in danger, is reasonable.
That's what the modern version of Roe gave us.
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@wunanddun
it's called following suit and in some card games it's the rule of play.
It's the baptists and Extreme Catholics and Christian Nationalists who want a total ban on Women's choices who made up the claims that everyone else wants a full 9 month anything goes set of regulations.
See there you've unwittingly done it again,
There you go imagining that you know what other people are thinking - and your version of that is everything turned up to 11.
@Ricosuave,
The left has never advocated for anything but safe, legal and rare.
It's the politicians and media idiots who want the votes and donations of the baptists and Extreme Catholics and Christian Nationalists who want a total ban on Women's choices who made up the claims that everyone else want this easy breezy no holds barred abortion on demand.
Maybe you should take a breath before you go all-in with someone who's clearly politicking and angling for your money.
It doesn't make you look like someone who has great judgment.
I'm sticking with this-
"Seriously, none of you dudes have any business telling women what to do with their lives."
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Doesn't it go without saying that anything Republicans post must be fact checked?
Abrams said that the decision to have a child is directly related to worries about the economy since having a child is expensive, she didn't say that abortion could solve inflation as Republicans implied.
Again, Republicans playing to their dumb-fuck base. Be smarter.
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And the Democrats NEVER take out of context anything a Republican says...
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Hey ma1, try fact checking biden just for a week! *Clown world*
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Of course they do Jazz, doesn't everyone? That's obvious.
However, we're talking about THIS and not THAT right here and right now.
If you want to broadly generalize, the people whos voices always seem to be raised around these parts are mostly supporting their arguments with out of context political talking points taken from political agendas that emerge from the soupy mix of Christian Nationalism or Fantastical Libertarianism and then proclaiming their righteous certainty about anything and everything.
I blame it on legalized herbs.
My bro in law nearly wrecked his cozy retirement situation cause he didn't understand the cardinal rule - wait 30 minutes after smoking before making decisions or talking to your SO, because you WILL get in trouble running off at the yap when you're high is peaking.
A cold towel on the back of the neck helps too. :-)
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@nr so your milestone is 20 weeks? Just checking cus that is right where I am when it comes to the subject of obvious viability.
I have the fortunate experience of having a family member now in kindergarten that was born right at the mid 2nd trimester point and he is thriving, but not without issues. When he was born he could fit almost entirely in the palm of my hand. Watching him grow up is truly miraculous.
All of his life has been a struggle though and I'm not so disingenuous to say that his life would have even been possible 20 years ago .... he probably would have died. But my point is there was definitely life at about 22 and a half weeks or soo so in my opinion it begins somewhere before that .. I don't know how long before that but he is proof.
And the argument pro-abortion people have is not at all about where life can be scientifically decided it begins ... its that no one should decide except highly unqualified emotionally unstable and possibly manipulated young ladies can decide. And again previabilty (and I'm probably in the minority) I don't have a problem with them making that decision despite all of those issues.
But the trick is to never accept a definition for viability therefore you keep the argument and make it all about an old white guy controlling you. When a lot of women are not supportive of abortion at all and even more not supportive of abortion under these new radically evil conditions of up to and after the point of birth.
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It is really difficult for a black woman running as a Democrat to win statewide in the South unless they are running against a clone of Herschel Walker. It is expected that over 75% of whites will vote for Brian Kemp. The statistics clearly show the Republican party is the White Peoples Party and it requires a lot of political skill for a Democrat to have large scale appeal to whites without alienating their base. The statistics show:
- White people without a college degree favored Trump by 32 pts in 2020.
- Evangelical Christians favored Trump by 69 pts in 2020
- Whites in rural areas favored Trump by 43 pts in 2020.
- White people in the South favored Trump by 29 pts in 2020.
Faced with these numbers I don't see how Abrams wins even if her son was the starting qb for the University of Georgia. I also agree with the statement that her abortion comment was completely taken out of context and her main point was that the economic situation of an individual is taken into consideration when deciding whether to have an abortion.
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^ So base her entire candidacy on her being misunderstood? And give her the benefit of the doubt?
She is clearly supportive of unrestricted abortion and that does not play well in the 8th most religious stare in the country and you might guffaw at that fact and joke to your contemporaries about the average Georgian believing in God of all things .... but her reality is that is her voter pool ... and she should make them feel secure in their vote by vowing to represent them and their views ... not force a highly contentious issue upon them because she understands better than them all the issues surrounding abortion and unwanted pregnancy.
It's a losing issue and not a smart move at all for her to make it part of her campaign.
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"The left has never advocated for anything but safe, legal and rare."
The "rare" part is so blatantly untrue that it's insulting.
In 2020, 1 in 5 pregnancies ended in abortion. There were 3.6 million births vs. 960,000 abortions.
Source: Guttmacher Institute, a "reproductive rights organization"
(https://www.guttmacher.org/article/2022/06/long-term-decline-us-abortions-reverses-showing-rising-need-abortion-supreme-court)
Does that sound rare to you?
I also don't see the "rare" part mentioned any more at rallies or in articles like this one:
https://www.leftvoice.org/make-it-law-for-free-safe-and-legal-abortion-on-demand-and-without-apology/
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Planned Parenthood recently defended Bill Cosby, saying that sexual assault is only 3% of what he does.
Snopes felt that they needed to fact check that joke as if it were an actual news report. That's how quick the Left is to label anything and everything that conservatives say as misinformation.
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@RicoSuave21
I’ll assume your 960,000 abortions per year number is accurate. What would happen if those abortions were living humans today. Would society be better off?
The assumption is that it is a difficult choice for most women to abort a pregnancy. They likely have a good reason, and we all should agree that birth control is not a good reason to abort a pregnancy. Whether it be birth defects, the product of a rape, the mother/father/couple being too young/immature, lack of funds, etc.
These kids will likely not be raised in a good environment and will be a detriment to society on many levels. And not to make this political, which it clearly is, but Republicans don’t give a shit about life outside of the womb.
Paid maternity leave? No.
Welfare for those who can’t afford diapers, food, shelter, etc.?
No. Social programs that can help the child be a product part of society? No.
It’s ridiculous to burden people and society by a concept of life that only the most crazy of Christians believe in without understanding the ramifications of forcing women to give birth to unwanted children.
So, the dumb solution: they shouldn’t have sex to begin with. I suspect most of the members of this website don’t believe in abstinence. And being the animals that we are, sex is essential.
Ok, people must use birth control. But that often fails and the crazy Christian now also want to abolish the use of birth control as well.
This whole abortion bullshit revolves around crazy Christians who want to shove their ideals down everyone’s throats. See this for what it is.
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But you already argued in favor of allowing "unwanted" humans into the United States. Or am I wrong about that? Maybe because they're useful as labor, they're actually wanted? Presumably, if they were only an economic burden, it would be okay to dispose of them like so many fetuses?
Monstrous, of course. But that's the crux of your argument. The value of a life is reduced to whether it's a net economic burden or an economic asset. Why draw the line at birth? Because it's more convenient to snuff out a life if's it's hidden away in a womb?
And you're wrong about Republicans not caring about life outside the womb. Because, you see, I'm also against killing an innocent person after they've been born. Call me a crazy Christian.
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Just call MA names, it's all he's good for.
Practice your ad hominems on this waste of oxygen punching bag
And it's fun when you get real creative!
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Can we all agree that GBD/Goebbels deserves to die a horrible death? How can he be alive when others die every day (I am sure even Goebbels would agree that humanity would be better off if he had never existed).
@ Rico
What�s monstrous is your ability argue.
I don�t often chime in on immigration issues, but one of the primary reasons that this country is successful is because of immigrants. Not only economically, but in every sense. But I do not support wide open borders. I am clearly not an ignorant xenophobe who wants to prevent immigrants from coming to this country especially since nearly all of us I this country are immigrants or descendants of immigrants.
And you couched what I wrote as the aborted being purely economic burdens. That is only partially true if you have any reading comprehension. They are also a social burden. They hamper the parent�s (especially the mother�s) ability to succeed in life. The aborted are more likely to be criminals if they are neglected and unable to be raised in households that could properly care for them. It is way more complex than you make it out to be.
And when does a fetus actually become a human being? At conception as some of the conservative idiots are suggesting? I believe that if the fetus is viable enough to survive out of the womb without life support, then it is clearly a life. Otherwise, it is a bunch of cells that �may� become a life. And sorry, I don�t want to sacrifice the living for the possibility that a bunch of cells may eventually become viable.
In fact, this is what the NIH indicates the percentage of conceptions that will eventually lead to birth:
�After simple adjustments for varying methods, existing data show that at least 73% of natural single conceptions have no real chance of surviving 6 weeks of gestation. Of the remainder, about 90% will survive to term.�
So only around 24.3% of conceptions actually result in a human life. Yet every conception must be protected because of the chance of life to crazy Christians? That logic is sadly comical.
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Can we all agree that GBD/Goebbels deserves to die a horrible death? How can he be alive when others die every day (I am sure even Goebbels would agree that humanity would be better off if he had never existed).
@ Rico
What’s monstrous is your ability argue.
I don’t often chime in on immigration issues, but one of the primary reasons that this country is successful is because of immigrants. Not only economically, but in every sense. But I do not support wide open borders. I am clearly not an ignorant xenophobe who wants to prevent immigrants from coming to this country especially since nearly all of us I this country are immigrants or descendants of immigrants.
And you couched what I wrote as the aborted being purely economic burdens. That is only partially true if you have any reading comprehension. They are also a social burden. They hamper the parent’s (especially the mother’s) ability to succeed in life. The aborted are more likely to be criminals if they are neglected and unable to be raised in households that could properly care for them. It is way more complex than you make it out to be.
And when does a fetus actually become a human being? At conception as some of the conservative idiots are suggesting? I believe that if the fetus is viable enough to survive out of the womb without life support, then it is clearly a life. Otherwise, it is a bunch of cells that “may” become a life. And sorry, I don’t want to sacrifice the living for the possibility that a bunch of cells may eventually become viable.
In fact, this is what the NIH indicates the percentage of conceptions that will eventually lead to birth:
“After simple adjustments for varying methods, existing data show that at least 73% of natural single conceptions have no real chance of surviving 6 weeks of gestation. Of the remainder, about 90% will survive to term.”
So only around 24.3% of conceptions actually result in a human life. Yet every conception must be protected because of the chance of life to crazy Christians? That logic is sadly comical.
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Maybe the linked article will shed some light:
“What a pregnancy actually looks like before 10 weeks – in pictures”
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LOL. Project much? You're one of the worst propagandists on the board. Apparently, if something is beyond your understanding, you automatically label it "stupid". I was wrong before: it's actually a freaking badge of honor to be the object of your derision, such as it is. It means I'm doing something right.
Meanwhile, you spout flawed arguments ALL THE TIME. Appeals to authority, straw man arguments, ad hominems, missing facts (intentional or unintentional), false equivalencies... you name it, you've used it.
Case in point: there's a difference, which apparently escapes you, between a living thing dying because of natural causes and dying directly at the hands of human agency. I don't believe that life expectancy or perceived quality of life determines intrinsic value. Apparently you do.
Further, you are arguing that the immediate purpose of an abortion is to extinguish a life EXACTLY BECAUSE it's a life that will require care, resources, or, in your extremely perverted sense of compassion, "protection" from abuse.
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Let me rephrase that last part to accommodate your remedial reading skills:
Further, you've already argued that the immediate purpose of an abortion is to extinguish a life EXACTLY BECAUSE it's a life, one that will require care, resources, or, in your extremely perverted sense of compassion, "protection" from abuse. NOW you're trying to claim that no, an embryo is really not a life at all.
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Of course, the mother’s life doesn’t factor into your equation at all. You keep on proving my point. Republicans only care about life in the womb.
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