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Couldn't happen to a nicer group, will definitely benefit sellers.
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Good, fuckin snakes in suits. I inherited some property when i was 20 and a "family friend" rushed the sale and didn't insist on a lein for the remaining balance (200k)the buyer didn't qualify for total amount. I had to remind them I am a war veteran and a ghetto hood rat that would go to extreme lengths to collect. I got my money but I got arrested for slamming a sheriff's deputy at their realtors office. I was charged with 3 felonies convicted of a misdemeanor.
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Such violence.
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Having been involved with a lot of real estate transactions over the decades, I can tell you that the final decision to “pull the trigger” was yours. The agent cannot forge your signature, and I have had many deals go south because seller wanted more.
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I know certain agents are used to the income/lifestyle, and will do anything to retain it.
The stories/porn of seductive agents is true.
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Win for the consumers! hell ya! Its ridiculous that sellers have to pay the buyers agent, fucken BULLSHIT!!! Why would I pay someone to buy my house! Im so glad NAR lost this round. Oh yeah, fuck the MLS too.
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Buyer will have to pay their agent now.
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I'm in the mortgage biz and just sold my home in OC so I have a pretty good view of this.
My agent did her job and earned her commission. She paid for all the things it took to sell my home and represented me in the negotiations. Yeah, I had to set her straight a couple of times but that's to be expected because I understood the process.
The buyers agent? He actually made it more difficult and all he did was walk the buyers through my house a couple of times. I had to pay him???? Should have come out of the buyers side. Let the mortgage company finance that commission and all is well.
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Great and lower commission for the selling agent as well. The NAR kept their maze like process for years AND it was deliberate. Damn con artists!
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When a 6% commission was standard, I negotiated my agents commission to 4% and I was still feeling like I was getting it up the ass! I learned so much from that transaction. Dont let agents tell you otherwise.
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Except now the buyer has to deal with the fees for the agent they work with, and they as the expression goes, there are “more than one way to skin a cat.”
I’ve met construction employees, super market cashiers, car salesmen, security guards who all have real estate licenses and have no clue about what they are doing for their clients. And don’t get me started on cops who are also real estate agents, and their arrogance.
In short, consumers are trading one for another, and more consumers will be on the hook.
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…Except now the buyer has to deal with the fees for the agent they work with…¦yes that is good! Why would any seller pay another agent to buy their house.
There is no other industry where a seller pays the buyer. Why the NAR structured this policy is only for their benefit and the benefit of its members. When I buy groceries, they dont pay me, the buyer, to shop at their store. When I buy a car, the dealer doesnt pay me, the buyer, to buy their car. I could go on and on but I think you get the picture.
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The real estate industry has a long history that is rife with corruption, redlining, steering, and blockbusting are just a few examples. Don’t get me started about the racial covenants in the titles restricting ownership, the main reason why even today most of our neighborhoods are still not very mixed racially. They are no longer legal but their legacy lives on. It wasn’t until the early 1990’s that buyer’s agency was established. With this for the first time agents represented the buyer’s best interest. This was an important development because prior, buyers were generally getting fucked. All agents owed the seller a fiduciary duty and not the buyer. The commission has always been 100 percent negotiable. During the last downturn all of the REOs were only paying a one percent commission. Two steps forward one step backward. Most people don’t do a ton of transactions in their lifetime. These people definitely need someone to help navigate the process and so do first time buyers. Banks will probably have to step in to mitigate this process because your house/mortgage is their investment. They’re probably the buyers greatest ally until the transaction closes, then they own a small piece of the buyer’s SOUL
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Never pay 6% - negotiate to 4%. If they complain then do the math with them:
800K x .04 = 32,000
Assuming a very liberal (opps, there's that word) hourly rate of $100/hour the agent should be putting 320 hours of effort into selling the home. Even if they do a commission split with the buyer's agent it is 160 hours.
Ask them what they plan to do for 160 hours of work in selling your house!
They will try to sell you on the value of the MLS. Counter by telling them the value of the internet and things like Craigs List. (have a friend that sold a house on CL with no broker involved - went straight to an escrow office).
RE agents have always been about as close to being economic predators as one could legally be - right up there with loan sharks!
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^ There are all kinds of hands out chopping up and taking pieces of that pie. The realtors don't just split it. But still, it's a racket that needs this improved transparency. When the market gets hot, every burger flipper becomes an agent again. But those 'celebrity realtors' are no better. Sign the paper and you never hear from them again. I called the person who would contact me "the dingbat." She couldn't get any communication straight. I had better rapport with the buyer's agent.
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As a real estate investor I've bought and sold a ton of houses and apt buildings.
But I pay 2% commission to the real estate agents I use. Started out paying 6% but that only lasted the first 6 months - my first 2 projects, before I did the math and figured out what they did for me was very little in the scheme of things.
The ones that refused to take 2% I dropped and the ones that accepted I kept and since they were selling anywhere from 4 -8 a year they were still making great money, between 6 - 20+k per sale, while I'm getting at least an extra 15+k off each transaction.
Since I'm the one working my ass off, to me it's a totally fair transaction. One of my realtors works strictly for me and lives in a very nice part of town and bought 2 tesla trucks, so he manages very well on 2%.
Atticus Finch
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I only use 4 agents that I know and two escrow companies for the last 30 years.
Depending on the area.
Never trust anyone without doing your due diligence.
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Commission has always been negotiable.
Atticus - when your exclusive agent retires, where do I apply? I’m accept 2% 😝
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Agreed on the ridiculous commissions, however, there are some services that can justify the commissions. I pay 4%, but over the years two agents also bring me deals off the market. This incentivizes them to scour the market and give me preferential treatment. Just have to find the really good ones. I still vet each deal to make sure it fits what I'm looking for.
If you're focused on a couple of transactions then, yes, grind them down to as low as possible. If you are playing the long game, it may be worth it to keep them working hard for you.
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Did they make any changes to dual agency where 1 realtor represents both buyer and seller?
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initially i was thinking...fuck the buyer's side...we can see pictures of homes we would like to look at for potential
BUT forgot that we had a buyer that REALLY put is in touch with off-market type stuff that was the best of the best deals out there...or walked us thru 15homes over few months with NADA to show for it.
almost like the using a cpa attitude for some...they would rather just save the money and do it themselves...but miss out on big stuff, relationship-type stuff, that pays their fees many many times over...like those OFF MARKET homes where seller is in the thinking or life problem stage
some homes sell themselves...others NEED some work. both agents have their work cut out for themselves. maybe 4percent is the new normal to be split.
what was the price of real estate when 6 percent became the normal?
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LMAO, so many people here including the OP do not understand the process and the proposed settlement. Nothing will change. Only the buyer's commission will not be advertised on the MLS. But it still will be paid by the listing broker/seller if they want to (and they should). The seller always negotiated the commission with the listing broker. The listing broker is the one paying a buyer's agent.
I'll be happy to educate all of you on the process.....lol
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The thing is, you don't even need an agent - selling or buying. I know a guy that sold a multi-million dollar piece of property by himself. He found a buyer and they both walked into an escrow office and he said, "This man wants to buy my property for [give them the details]." The buyer hands them a deposit check and they leave. The escrow company handled coordinating with the title company. They only had to go back to close the deal.
Once you have seen it done like that it really makes you wonder what the agents are getting paid for. The escrow company is the one that does all the work (and handling those mounds of paperwork required in CA).
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The title company to do the search. Making sure the title is clean
The escort company to make sure all the red tape is done deposits made and disbursements made.
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I never had an agent that I liked, or trusted. I get them down to 4%, after they whine and cry
They invariably, want you to sell, low, or buy high.
Fuck them, I’m a hard nosed negotiator, when it comes to big money transactions.
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@hercule…disagree, can you elaborate why the listing agent, the seller, should pay the buyers agent commission? What other industry has a seller pay a buyer? Please tell us…
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I had a client that once said "If on a scale from 1 to 10 a used car sales person is a 1 in honesty and integrity then a real estate sales person can't be more than a 2".
I think the above pretty much indicates most of the opinions on this blog.
However I do think there will be a lot of unexpected problems as these new rules get implemented.
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Scouring new handles right now
This one looks promising...........ExREagentDTF
Hope I get to fuck the agent that fucked me years ago
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'The thing is, you don't even need an agent'
Marris, that's absolutely true.
On about 80+% of my deals no agent is involved - I negotiate directly w/ the seller, fill out the contract, which you can download from the real estate license board, take it to the escrow office of choice, cut a check for the inspection period and the buyer drops off a deposit check. I work w/ 3 escrow offices almost exclusively, and I never see and agent until/unless I decide to sell the property.
Works out great for the seller cause they save thousands on the commission. We negotiate a price and set a closing date, usually 7 - 10 days, I have a contract with me that's already got my info, signature, initials and we just have to fill out the buyers info, price, escrow info, any contingencies, they sign and initial and we're off and running.
These deals are all off market and never listed on the MLS. The agents I work with do bring me deals that are off market/pocket listings as they all know what I'm looking for and in what areas and I always give them the listing when I sell so they get commissions on both ends of the deal. Occasionally they'll bring me something that's out of the those areas when it's a great deal and fits my criteria. And of course for anything I may find on the MLS, I do have access and check it out every day.
Atticus Finch
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I have been on both sides of this, first as a buyer with redfin assistant agents just opening doors and the agent never showing up to any appointment. Felt like everyone else on why is this agent making boatloads of money off my transaction and got my own license. Did my own transactions and pocketed the buyer's agent commission from that point. Also sold my own house. When you can't beat the system, join them.
I have also been a full time agent for a short period of time between regular jobs and I can say that a listing agent's job is hard as sellers feel they are paying 5-6% commission so they expect you to perform and SELL the house, so it can be stressful but in a good market, sellers rarely cancel the listing agent and so it's almost a sure thing as a payday.
The buyer's agent's job is not easy. usually with leads, having a 5-10% conversion is considered pretty good for zillow leads or other leads from the company, so for every 20 clients that you might have multiple showing appointments, you might only close 1-2 deals. If you have leads through Zillow, they take 35% cut. Also most brokers take 50% of the commissions, so that takes a big cut (broker will cover the 35% zillow cut out of their 50% if its' a zillow lead). So basically working 40 hours a week made me about $10,000 without considering the car expenses. Its good work if you know what you are doing and like helping people solve their issues. Obviously there are the good and bad agents, its the same in every profession, but it's not all fun and games as it's a big transaction. I have seen newbies get started and most brokers/companies don't support them so it is a low bar to get in and you should select your agent carefully.
Basically its a good thing, buyers will still pay their agents, but its all negotiable. Once everyone does the same thing, most buyers will pay 2.5-3% of commissions and the buyer's agent will just tell the buyers that they will request it from the sellers as a credit. My previous broker was already teaching us to do this.
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"These deals are all off market and never listed on the MLS."
Not listed prior to sale, I think is what you mean.
Up to now, all sales were required to be listed, as a closed sale......
They will all show up at County Recorders office for property tax change within a month or 2, also.
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not going to support anyone in this fight, but remember that the broker normally takes half of the commission, and pays enormous advertising expenses for his agents, floor space, insurance for malpractice etc etc, the agents don't make as much as one might think on any one transaction
so an 800 grand sale at 4% yields $32000 split between 2 brokers is $16000, and split again between broker and agent gives a whopping $8000 or 1% to the agent
a lot of time, work, and money goes into selling and it's not like you're moving lots of properties every month
unless you're carol geronsin and her group in OC or josh fagg or josh altman who specialize in the BH area
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@slowdown909
Sellers will continue to pay buyer's agents if they are smart. A seller needs to incentivize buyer's agents so the seller gets maximum exposure. As a seller, you want as many eyeballs on your property as possible and therefore generate as many offers as possible.
In this commission issue,, the buyer does not get paid anything from the seller. Not sure what you are referring to...
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'Not listed prior to sale, I think is what you mean.'
Maybe, I buy most of them off market so they aren't on the mls cause no agent or broker's involved.
I've never seen them on the MLS under pending or sold and I've had friends ask me what I sold them for when they're trying to comp out a house, apt complex or shop/office building in the area. I'm guessing they're asking because they're not on the MLS when they do a search.
Yup the sales are recorded with the county but I've never seen them on the MLS but then I've never really looked.
In texas there's a thing called CAD - central appraisal district for each county. You put in the address of the house you want info on and they list the counties appraised value, tax base, the last 3 or 4 times it was sold & to who & what type of deed, date it was built, square footage at time of building or any additions/adu's, what the property taxes are etc. That may be why they don't show up on the MLS pages. I probably use CAD more than I do the MLS.
Atticus Finch
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Read facefucker's comments. He is correct.
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This is going to result in. Users going directly to the listing agent where they will possibly make two commissions or have to do the buyer side for free to get the deal done. No buyer will want to pay a commission. They will find an agent who will do the buyer side for dirt cheap. If you need to buy a home, I will represent you for $2,000
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AF
I see them as a "closed sale" 1 day on MLS
However, those do have 1 agent involved, which tells me they're required to do so.
In your case, zero agents....no requirement to list the closed sale.
Funny that your MLS searchers didn't know how to find the new value on the County website
Working backward from taxes owed or the Title recordation works.
Having a Title officer on speed dial works too
Frankly, that seems to be an area rife for tech based price compression.......Title
And, I'd like to know why a mortgage isn't transferable from property to property?
If I sell one for $1m and buy another at same value (assuming appraisal is done), why can't I keep my 3% mortgage and simply lien the new property with it and release the old property?
Seems to be another area of opportunity for a tech savvy company business model.
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My of my social number circle is comprised of real estate agents and investors, and many of the viewpoints mentioned have been echoed by people I know and trust.
BUT!
As usual you get educated and disciplined real estate agents who move and adapt and succeed,
And then you get the clown car full of bozos with no education for themselves of their clients, and already get listings on MLS with stupid requirements for the sale to go through. It won’t, and lawsuits will explode as conditions of deals get sorted out.
nd decent agents may end up here because of some fiasco.
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'And, I'd like to know why a mortgage isn't transferable from property to property?'
Actually you can, but it's not looked at as assuming someone else's loan or transferring it to your name.
Instead when you're negotiating you work out a 'Subject to Sale' deal - it's legal and on every real estate contract in all 50 states and dc.
I've done A LOT of 'Sub To' deals because it allows me to get a property with 'minimal' cash out of pocket. The only time I've used the sub to clause is for foreclosures - the last one I bought this way was an 1800+ ft house that the owners were 2 weeks away from losing. We agreed to me paying them what they originally put down, I brought the mortgage back to current and then I make the payments BUT the loan stays the same i.e. the sellers name stays on the mortgage, and the mortgage stays in place as does the interest rate.
It also puts the sellers in 1st position so that if I don't make the payments they can foreclose on me after missing just one payment.
So the sellers know I'm making the payments they're given access to the bank account that the payments are coming from - no, they're not able to see the account number, balance, or do anything in the account - it just shows them the payment's are being made and I always set it up for auto payments.
No realtor I've ever met even knows about 'Subject To' but most serious investors do and use it when they can cause you get the house for less $$$. The house in the last deal above I got for about 150K.
Atticus Finch
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Not what I meant, actually.
You're referring to taking over existing mortgage payments, if I understand you correctly.
Also, only works if there's a loan to take over payments on, right?
My scenario:
Mortgage in my name, lien on Property A.
Sell A and buy B, mortgage lien now on B.
Same mortgage, same payments, same interest rate.
It's bullshit having to originate a new loan with all the attendant costs.
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Interesting concept gbd. The mortgage is secured by the asset(property). It would create quite a chaotic world out there. But hey, one never knows.
AF, you are right. Not many agents know about creative financing. It's getting popular again. Sub to, wrap, seller financing, etc....I'm in that world as well.
Sherkie again shows he has no clue about real estate...
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And, I'd like to know why a mortgage isn't transferable from property to property?
In some circles we call it porting a mortgage. But I am not sure if it applies to mobile homes. So you may be SOL Goebbels.
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A mortgage is a loan. Yes, secured by property but the loan was applied for and approved by/to a person(s) or specific entity. Whether it is 'transferable' or 'non-transferable' is spelled out on the loan docs and agreed to by all parties. Negotiate it or not. Heck, I wish mine was transferable: 2.5%.
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^ that's what I'm saying
What dif does it make WHICH property is used as collateral for the loan, as long as the value is adequate. If the lender foreclosed, why would they care if they're taking property A or B to sell to cover their loan?
Could be worse I suppose, in Canada most loans are 25 year amorts but only 5 years in length, then you gotta refi. It just seems that some smart techie could charge a fee to "port" the loan, a fee that's less than the cost to refi AND the cost of losing a 2.5% loan to a new 7% loan.
Anyway, at 122 years old, I'm too tired to figure it out. Just gonna hang out in my single wide in 29 Palms eating cactus thorns, take sand baths and come into OC now and then to blow a load of funky chunks on Hey1's face.
Charity work is so very rewarding.
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How the hell did this blog thread go off in the wrong direction….?
Welcome, lady real estate agents.
You have the skills and tools to meet new people and get what you need, we are here to help your new direction.
Make sure you avoid low ball offers from EdmondDantes and longwalker, who have rolls of pennies in their pockets instead a thick wallet and a thick dick.
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Glad you finally got this blog under control "Gloomy "Nano-Peen" Gloomster.
Love to see some lady RE agents instead of resting my balls on Hey1's chins.
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Stop digging around my used underwear in my hamper, GoBalls.
I don’t hide my money there like you do.
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^ this feels a bit forced, Gloomy.
Seen you do much better, very disappointed you didn't take your time to insult "fag bitch 1/4 Inch Balls" in a more prolific fashion.
"fag bitch 1/4 Inch Balls"
^ Seriously.............my next handle
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Agents I know on commission tell me they will not represent buyers, only sellers.
Buyers may have to go with the flat fee brokers
There's gonna be some serious reshuffling of the deck here
I hope we get some hot agents on the site soon
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Agents might have been worth more before the internet.
However, now, not so much, what idiot can't figure out price per square foot, comps and everything else just by looking at a listing & simple Google searches.
House I'm in now, my agent didn't find it for me, I did, all he did was shuffle some paperwork through standardized forms.
Big whoop.
not worth a nearly six figure payday.
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